5 ms·

At age 20 or so, I read a quote in a book (on day trading, IIRC) that went something like: "Master your emotions, or they will master you." After thinking abou

by bm3719 5y ago

At age 20 or so, I read a quote in a book (on day trading, IIRC) that went something like: "Master your emotions, or they will master you." After thinking about it, I realized that despite identifying as a logical-thinking individual, I was nevertheless at the mercy of the more primitive parts of my brain. Sometimes totally, but pretty much all executive functions were influenced by it to a large degree. That might be fine, but my limbic system tended to make poor decisions; ones that my more conscious brain would have to pay the price for later. It's also no match for the brains of people not in emotional mode, and would be taken advantage of by things like appeals to emotion in advertising, politics, and rhetoric. I decided my internal caveman was not my friend, and took steps to sideline his vote in decision-making.

yberreby 5y ago
> I decided my internal caveman was not my friend, and took steps to sideline his vote in decision-making. Could you elaborate on what those steps were?
- StavrosK 5y ago
  Probably the same as changing any behavior: First try to notice when you're doing the thing you don't want to be doing, then try to abort when you find yourself doing it. The time between "start" and "abort" will keep getting shorter, and eventually you'll not do it in the first place.
  - DrStartup 5y ago
    Sounds like the ACT Matrix
- bm3719 5y ago
  I settled on the triune brain model as a good-enough approximation for my needs in relation to this (whether it's factually accurate is another issue). I would then categorize my thoughts and subsequent actions based on that model (mainly limbic vs. neocortex). It's pretty easy to tell them apart with some high-level introspection. Then, I'd short-circuit any emotional thinking once I spotted myself engaging in it, and injecting rational thought into those times when the limbic system would normally be in control. I'd spent decades of life not doing this, so it took a long time for this to not feel weird, but eventually it became natural. Once the big reactive emotions (e.g. anger) were dealt with, I turned attention to the more subtle influences. I think there's a middle ground of thoughts that are a more complex or a mix of emotional and rational (think things like national pride, identity, career progression). That's a harder job and a more involved topic. In fact, I can't say I've completely got that done, or even fully mastered the first part. The caveman is always there, of course, and perhaps the best you can hope for is restraining him.
  - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
    This seems weird and bad. Emotion and "reason" aren't two ends of a spectrum. You likely aren't any more logical or less emotional now than you were before. I believe you about better control over how you engage with your emotional responses but damn dude. If you were just getting too mad at stuff they got therapy for that you don't hafta roll your own psychic amputations these days.
    - float4 5y ago
      > If you were just getting too mad at stuff they got therapy for that CBT being the most popular kind. In CBT you detect negative emotional reasoning, categorise it, and refute it by coming up with a more rational response. See the pattern?
koheripbal 5y ago
This is such an important realization. And when you have it and then think back in your life to the failed relationships you've had (personal and professional) it's usually very staggering the degree to which your caveman sabotaged you. Learn this lesson young, and you will save yourself decades of squandered time. Most people never appreciate the degree to which their emotions sabotage their lives.
luckyandroid 5y ago
If I ever got something beneficial out of meditation, it was that feelings and thoughts come and go and do not have to necessarily be listened to. I didn't realise this until I was in my early 20s, and looking back, there were so many regretful moments as a result of just doing whatever feelings and thoughts dictated I should do in any given moment. Being able to view your thoughts and feelings in an abstract, manageable way is incredibly important.
- CountDrewku 5y ago
  Yep meditation is great at helping you laugh at the absurdity of your thoughts and the realization they're totally fleeting along with the emotions they bring. Now, I can just think to myself that emotion will be gone in a few hours/days/etc. and I don't need to obsess about it, just let it be. It's absolutely true too.
  - nefitty 5y ago
    The phrase, “This too, shall pass,” can be bittersweet at times, but also comforting. Although some feelings can be so intense that it is difficult to think thoughts that move me back to baseline, the clock keeps ticking and new experiences inevitably flood in. One thing I think about a lot is that we generally can’t “remember” what pain feels like, which helps sometimes.
- tlapinsk 5y ago
  Whole heartedly agree with this post. I didn't start meditating until my mid-20s and am just grateful to have discovered the practice at all. Instead of swimming in your thoughts/emotions all day, meditation teaches you how temporary and fleeting they are. This helps you detach from them and not take your own thoughts so personally (if that makes sense). It's like you have a 50,000 foot view above your thoughts as they come and go.
- fidesomnes 5y ago
  > If I ever got something beneficial out of meditation Don't do meditation to get anything beneficial at all. You do meditation to let go of all of that altogether and (ultimately) prepare yourself for death.
Layvier 5y ago
Imo there's a strong tendency for people working in tech/business or with high ambition in general to suppress their emotions as they affect the decision making. However, I'd rather make suboptimal decisions if that means a richer life, deeper connections and a stronger sense of wonder. Trying to be as logical, rational as possible makes life dull and mechanical. In the end as Kierkegaard said, "Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.".
- darkerside 5y ago
  Some might say that the true sense of beauty and wonder cones from doing how similar those two opposite ends of the spectrum actually can be
  - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
    Who might say that and what would we have to do for them to commit to it? Are you saying it? Because I don't think it's true at all! But I want to wait until someone actually say it before I get into that.
    - darkerside 5y ago
      Thanks for the invitation but I'm not looking to argue about it. Peace!
      - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
        Yes this is one of the great advantages of the "some might say" move, love that shit.
- FredPret 5y ago
  Even if you approach life logically, and see it as a problem, the question remains: what does the solution look like? Money in the bank, active sex life, dozens of adoring grand children, popularity, achievement, status, a long life? These ideas enter our rational faculties from below. They are the caveman's goals, and the rational layer of our being is just a means to that end.
lemonberry 5y ago
Yes. An easy observation to make when the highly rational and logical person in the room gets angry. Particularly when they're angered by others non-rationality. As if being angry is a rational response or a useful one.
breckinloggins 5y ago
I think we read the same book. Probably "Trading in the Zone" or one of those. I never ended up day trading much, but I sure as hell got that message loud and clear.
jlos 5y ago
"Mastering your emotions" if you mean, controlling your emotions, is not balanced or healthy. Mastering your emotions means listening to them as a critical feedback to your environment and then rationally controlling your response. Rational thought is complimentary to emotional thought. Rational thought is slow, reflexive, and highly focused. Emotional thought is affective; it is your mind telling you how something is affecting you. E.g. Anger tells you some boundary has been violated. It's the rational part that allows you to analyze that feeling and respond appropriately (telling someone to back off or getting a snack because your blood sugars are low)
- mensetmanusman 5y ago
  Anger usually tells me that my expectations are too high, or that my patience is wearing thin, and that I should improve it. This practice of self-reflection after anger over the decades has turned into a life where I am very rarely angry, and life is incredibly enjoyable.
- jmcqk6 5y ago
  You're making assumptions about what "mastering your emotions" mean. Imagine a river. Controlling the river in the way you suggest is like throwing obstacles in the river trying to dam it. But instead, imagine trying to redirect the river instead. You don't fight the flow, you just move it.

by bm3719 5y ago

yberreby 5y ago

> I decided my internal caveman was not my friend, and took steps to sideline his vote in decision-making. Could you elaborate on what those steps were?

StavrosK 5y ago
Probably the same as changing any behavior: First try to notice when you're doing the thing you don't want to be doing, then try to abort when you find yourself doing it. The time between "start" and "abort" will keep getting shorter, and eventually you'll not do it in the first place.
- DrStartup 5y ago
  Sounds like the ACT Matrix
bm3719 5y ago
I settled on the triune brain model as a good-enough approximation for my needs in relation to this (whether it's factually accurate is another issue). I would then categorize my thoughts and subsequent actions based on that model (mainly limbic vs. neocortex). It's pretty easy to tell them apart with some high-level introspection. Then, I'd short-circuit any emotional thinking once I spotted myself engaging in it, and injecting rational thought into those times when the limbic system would normally be in control. I'd spent decades of life not doing this, so it took a long time for this to not feel weird, but eventually it became natural. Once the big reactive emotions (e.g. anger) were dealt with, I turned attention to the more subtle influences. I think there's a middle ground of thoughts that are a more complex or a mix of emotional and rational (think things like national pride, identity, career progression). That's a harder job and a more involved topic. In fact, I can't say I've completely got that done, or even fully mastered the first part. The caveman is always there, of course, and perhaps the best you can hope for is restraining him.
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
  This seems weird and bad. Emotion and "reason" aren't two ends of a spectrum. You likely aren't any more logical or less emotional now than you were before. I believe you about better control over how you engage with your emotional responses but damn dude. If you were just getting too mad at stuff they got therapy for that you don't hafta roll your own psychic amputations these days.
  - float4 5y ago
    > If you were just getting too mad at stuff they got therapy for that CBT being the most popular kind. In CBT you detect negative emotional reasoning, categorise it, and refute it by coming up with a more rational response. See the pattern?

koheripbal 5y ago

This is such an important realization. And when you have it and then think back in your life to the failed relationships you've had (personal and professional) it's usually very staggering the degree to which your caveman sabotaged you. Learn this lesson young, and you will save yourself decades of squandered time. Most people never appreciate the degree to which their emotions sabotage their lives.

luckyandroid 5y ago

If I ever got something beneficial out of meditation, it was that feelings and thoughts come and go and do not have to necessarily be listened to. I didn't realise this until I was in my early 20s, and looking back, there were so many regretful moments as a result of just doing whatever feelings and thoughts dictated I should do in any given moment. Being able to view your thoughts and feelings in an abstract, manageable way is incredibly important.

CountDrewku 5y ago
Yep meditation is great at helping you laugh at the absurdity of your thoughts and the realization they're totally fleeting along with the emotions they bring. Now, I can just think to myself that emotion will be gone in a few hours/days/etc. and I don't need to obsess about it, just let it be. It's absolutely true too.
- nefitty 5y ago
  The phrase, “This too, shall pass,” can be bittersweet at times, but also comforting. Although some feelings can be so intense that it is difficult to think thoughts that move me back to baseline, the clock keeps ticking and new experiences inevitably flood in. One thing I think about a lot is that we generally can’t “remember” what pain feels like, which helps sometimes.
tlapinsk 5y ago
Whole heartedly agree with this post. I didn't start meditating until my mid-20s and am just grateful to have discovered the practice at all. Instead of swimming in your thoughts/emotions all day, meditation teaches you how temporary and fleeting they are. This helps you detach from them and not take your own thoughts so personally (if that makes sense). It's like you have a 50,000 foot view above your thoughts as they come and go.
fidesomnes 5y ago
> If I ever got something beneficial out of meditation Don't do meditation to get anything beneficial at all. You do meditation to let go of all of that altogether and (ultimately) prepare yourself for death.

Layvier 5y ago

Imo there's a strong tendency for people working in tech/business or with high ambition in general to suppress their emotions as they affect the decision making. However, I'd rather make suboptimal decisions if that means a richer life, deeper connections and a stronger sense of wonder. Trying to be as logical, rational as possible makes life dull and mechanical. In the end as Kierkegaard said, "Life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced.".

darkerside 5y ago
Some might say that the true sense of beauty and wonder cones from doing how similar those two opposite ends of the spectrum actually can be
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
  Who might say that and what would we have to do for them to commit to it? Are you saying it? Because I don't think it's true at all! But I want to wait until someone actually say it before I get into that.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    Thanks for the invitation but I'm not looking to argue about it. Peace!
    - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
      Yes this is one of the great advantages of the "some might say" move, love that shit.
FredPret 5y ago
Even if you approach life logically, and see it as a problem, the question remains: what does the solution look like? Money in the bank, active sex life, dozens of adoring grand children, popularity, achievement, status, a long life? These ideas enter our rational faculties from below. They are the caveman's goals, and the rational layer of our being is just a means to that end.

lemonberry 5y ago

Yes. An easy observation to make when the highly rational and logical person in the room gets angry. Particularly when they're angered by others non-rationality. As if being angry is a rational response or a useful one.

breckinloggins 5y ago

I think we read the same book. Probably "Trading in the Zone" or one of those. I never ended up day trading much, but I sure as hell got that message loud and clear.

jlos 5y ago

"Mastering your emotions" if you mean, controlling your emotions, is not balanced or healthy. Mastering your emotions means listening to them as a critical feedback to your environment and then rationally controlling your response. Rational thought is complimentary to emotional thought. Rational thought is slow, reflexive, and highly focused. Emotional thought is affective; it is your mind telling you how something is affecting you. E.g. Anger tells you some boundary has been violated. It's the rational part that allows you to analyze that feeling and respond appropriately (telling someone to back off or getting a snack because your blood sugars are low)

mensetmanusman 5y ago
Anger usually tells me that my expectations are too high, or that my patience is wearing thin, and that I should improve it. This practice of self-reflection after anger over the decades has turned into a life where I am very rarely angry, and life is incredibly enjoyable.
jmcqk6 5y ago
You're making assumptions about what "mastering your emotions" mean. Imagine a river. Controlling the river in the way you suggest is like throwing obstacles in the river trying to dam it. But instead, imagine trying to redirect the river instead. You don't fight the flow, you just move it.