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Why give them anything at all? That's even cheaper. These people aren't coming to the state to escape homelessness they're coming to the state for the free perk

Why give them anything at all? That's even cheaper. These people aren't coming to the state to escape homelessness they're coming to the state for the free perks. Leave convincing people to change to the charities and quit wasting public money on bottomless pits.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
> Why give them anything at all? That's even cheaper. Because morality isn't measured by how much money you can save watching your neighbors rot. Well...to some people anyway. We start with the desire to benefit others as the first principle and then determine how to do it. That's called being prosocial rather than antisocial.
- jl2718 5y ago
  Yes. Clearly it’s measured by how much money you take by force from other people and give maybe 10% to anybody that ‘needs’ it.
  - evgen 5y ago
    It is called the price of admission. Don't like it? Leave. Last time I checked no one was preventing you from making a run for Nevada.
    - jl2718 5y ago
      The point is that there is nothing morally positive about forcing other people to pay for your ideas, even if you think that they are morally positive ideas. The poster was responding to somebody that was being forced to do something that they didn’t want to, and the response was something along the lines of moral obligation. This is obviously not the shared opinion, and has no objective basis to it, so that argument could be, and has been, abused to justify any kind of force. It would be more honest to just admit that the situation has a lot more to do with power than morals, which I think is what you are getting at: there is no voice, only exit.
  - BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
    Well, if you favor watching your neighbors rot instead of contributing to raise them up, if you consider taxes paid for social welfare to be theft, you don't have to stay in California. Nobody forces you to live in a society.
    - jl2718 5y ago
      You know, the taxes they force you to pay are only a minimum requirement. Government is like any other service or charity out there. You don’t have to vote to force other people to buy the product; you can purchase as much as you want yourself! But actually you are wrong about that. I paid California taxes for several years spent overseas. The only tie I had was a bank account. Side note: there are some other jurisdictions around the world that have some innovative public funding models based on payer choice with minimum contribution set by vote. This is sort of like the Marilyn Vos Savant “you cut I choose” model, and it seems to me that such a market model would vastly outcompete the command contribution model for delivering social benefit.

BugsJustFindMe 5y ago

> Why give them anything at all? That's even cheaper. Because morality isn't measured by how much money you can save watching your neighbors rot. Well...to some people anyway. We start with the desire to benefit others as the first principle and then determine how to do it. That's called being prosocial rather than antisocial.

jl2718 5y ago
Yes. Clearly it’s measured by how much money you take by force from other people and give maybe 10% to anybody that ‘needs’ it.
- evgen 5y ago
  It is called the price of admission. Don't like it? Leave. Last time I checked no one was preventing you from making a run for Nevada.
  - jl2718 5y ago
    The point is that there is nothing morally positive about forcing other people to pay for your ideas, even if you think that they are morally positive ideas. The poster was responding to somebody that was being forced to do something that they didn’t want to, and the response was something along the lines of moral obligation. This is obviously not the shared opinion, and has no objective basis to it, so that argument could be, and has been, abused to justify any kind of force. It would be more honest to just admit that the situation has a lot more to do with power than morals, which I think is what you are getting at: there is no voice, only exit.
- BugsJustFindMe 5y ago
  Well, if you favor watching your neighbors rot instead of contributing to raise them up, if you consider taxes paid for social welfare to be theft, you don't have to stay in California. Nobody forces you to live in a society.
  - jl2718 5y ago
    You know, the taxes they force you to pay are only a minimum requirement. Government is like any other service or charity out there. You don’t have to vote to force other people to buy the product; you can purchase as much as you want yourself! But actually you are wrong about that. I paid California taxes for several years spent overseas. The only tie I had was a bank account. Side note: there are some other jurisdictions around the world that have some innovative public funding models based on payer choice with minimum contribution set by vote. This is sort of like the Marilyn Vos Savant “you cut I choose” model, and it seems to me that such a market model would vastly outcompete the command contribution model for delivering social benefit.