4 ms·

I don't get it, why eat insects over something like a cow? Cows provide fertilizer, provider highly nutritious meat and have the same neglible environmental im

by Ygg2 5y ago

I don't get it, why eat insects over something like a cow? Cows provide fertilizer, provider highly nutritious meat and have the same neglible environmental impact as other wildlife. Essentially the emissions of ruminants on US soil is indistinguishable from the emission of ruminants 200 years ago. The studies that proved that cows consume huge amounts of water or emit methane were highly flawed, either comparing the usage of naturally occurring water as water consumed, or comparing whole lifecycle of cow emission to tail pipe emission of a car (compare CO2 of all things a person uses in lifetime to another persons CO2 emission of CO2 during their life).

liotier 5y ago
Insects contain the most protein in proportion of body weight, their food is whatever low-quality biomass you throw at them, their production doesn't take much space... They are simply more efficient. Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27128086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27128086 has a nice FAO quote along these lines.
adrianN 5y ago
Even if for some reason you don't believe that beef has a much worse environmental impact, or don't believe that this matters, I think it's hard to argue against that cows are much more intelligent and much more capable of suffering than insects.
- aww_dang 5y ago
  If empathy were the primary concern, perhaps the working conditions in Foxconn iPhone production lines or violence underpinning the petrodollar might rate higher on the list of concerns. Perhaps these issues don't offer the same performative opportunities to signal one's virtue. There's also the central planning aspect to consider. Sent from my iPhone.
  - adrianN 5y ago
    That's just whataboutism.
    - infamouscow 5y ago
      Calling something "whataboutism" isn't a magic spell that actually refutes the points being made.
      - totalZero 5y ago
        I think the point is a lack of rhetorical linkage to the body of the conversation.
    - lurquer 5y ago
      No it’s not. He’s pointing out an unspoken assumption that is incorrect. Namely, that a creature’s intelligence has any bearing on how they ought be treated. It obviously doesn’t. The most intelligent animal of all is routinely enslaved, overworked, and discarded. Thus, the assumption is not as universally accepted as many posters suggest. Arguing about the relative intelligence of insects or cows or dogs or horses or whales with the end of concluding by that we ought or ought not eat them is silly. If it tastes good, people will eat it. Likewise, if someone is good at making iPhones or picking cotton, that’s what they’ll be forced to do regardless of their IQ.
- Ygg2 5y ago
  What guarantees do you have that insects don't possess intelligence we aren't able to measure? E.g. how do you know that locust don't have higher cognitive functions. For example bees can count, disbelieve each other and are great spatial navigator.
lopis 5y ago
> Cows provide fertilizer Animal industrial complexes destroy ecosystems. The amount of urine and manure is massive, it's a problem in itself. You can't just dump all that on farms. > and have the same neglible environmental impact as other wildlife Wildlife does not reproduce at the unsustainable scale that we force cows to do so. There are some 40k cows in the USA alone¹ (and many more pigs and chickens, which people eat more of). [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/194302/number-of-beef-and-milk-cows-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/194302/number-of-beef-an...
- saalaa 5y ago
  It's 40000000 not 40000.
- Ygg2 5y ago
  > Animal industrial complexes destroy ecosystems. That doesn't counter what I said. Sure they destroy ecosystems, but only as secondary effects. A field of almonds in a desert will destroy more ecosystems than cows being fed corn or grass. > Wildlife does not reproduce at the unsustainable scale that we force cows to do so. Sure it does, it's just the question of keeping wildlife in check via predation. When wolves disappear so do forests, because deer (or other ruminants) run amok. The way I see it, what US did is convert the biomass of wildlife into the biomass of cows.
- algo_trader 5y ago
  > The amount of urine and manure is massive, it's a problem in itself. You can't just dump all that on farms. We make mega-tons of fertilizers, so presumably this urine/manure can displace some of the fertilizer? At most, this is a question of cost/regulation/externality? > Wildlife does not reproduce at the unsustainable scale that we force cows to do so Well, yeah, true. But maybe u want to go back in time and tell your parents to have one less child? Let hope we find a balance over the next decades
EricE 5y ago
Insects can be delicious if cooked correctly (often just toasting them will do the trick). And as others have stated they are protein rich and pretty efficient to raise. I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 5 to 10 years some insect eating fad breaks out with some popular tic tok'r and suddenly our perception on them starts to flip. Social media might actually redeem itself.

by Ygg2 5y ago

liotier 5y ago

Insects contain the most protein in proportion of body weight, their food is whatever low-quality biomass you throw at them, their production doesn't take much space... They are simply more efficient. Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27128086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27128086 has a nice FAO quote along these lines.

adrianN 5y ago

Even if for some reason you don't believe that beef has a much worse environmental impact, or don't believe that this matters, I think it's hard to argue against that cows are much more intelligent and much more capable of suffering than insects.

aww_dang 5y ago
If empathy were the primary concern, perhaps the working conditions in Foxconn iPhone production lines or violence underpinning the petrodollar might rate higher on the list of concerns. Perhaps these issues don't offer the same performative opportunities to signal one's virtue. There's also the central planning aspect to consider. Sent from my iPhone.
- adrianN 5y ago
  That's just whataboutism.
  - infamouscow 5y ago
    Calling something "whataboutism" isn't a magic spell that actually refutes the points being made.
    - totalZero 5y ago
      I think the point is a lack of rhetorical linkage to the body of the conversation.
  - lurquer 5y ago
    No it’s not. He’s pointing out an unspoken assumption that is incorrect. Namely, that a creature’s intelligence has any bearing on how they ought be treated. It obviously doesn’t. The most intelligent animal of all is routinely enslaved, overworked, and discarded. Thus, the assumption is not as universally accepted as many posters suggest. Arguing about the relative intelligence of insects or cows or dogs or horses or whales with the end of concluding by that we ought or ought not eat them is silly. If it tastes good, people will eat it. Likewise, if someone is good at making iPhones or picking cotton, that’s what they’ll be forced to do regardless of their IQ.
Ygg2 5y ago
What guarantees do you have that insects don't possess intelligence we aren't able to measure? E.g. how do you know that locust don't have higher cognitive functions. For example bees can count, disbelieve each other and are great spatial navigator.

lopis 5y ago

> Cows provide fertilizer Animal industrial complexes destroy ecosystems. The amount of urine and manure is massive, it's a problem in itself. You can't just dump all that on farms. > and have the same neglible environmental impact as other wildlife Wildlife does not reproduce at the unsustainable scale that we force cows to do so. There are some 40k cows in the USA alone¹ (and many more pigs and chickens, which people eat more of). [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/194302/number-of-beef-and-milk-cows-in-the-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/194302/number-of-beef-an...

saalaa 5y ago
It's 40000000 not 40000.
Ygg2 5y ago
> Animal industrial complexes destroy ecosystems. That doesn't counter what I said. Sure they destroy ecosystems, but only as secondary effects. A field of almonds in a desert will destroy more ecosystems than cows being fed corn or grass. > Wildlife does not reproduce at the unsustainable scale that we force cows to do so. Sure it does, it's just the question of keeping wildlife in check via predation. When wolves disappear so do forests, because deer (or other ruminants) run amok. The way I see it, what US did is convert the biomass of wildlife into the biomass of cows.
algo_trader 5y ago
> The amount of urine and manure is massive, it's a problem in itself. You can't just dump all that on farms. We make mega-tons of fertilizers, so presumably this urine/manure can displace some of the fertilizer? At most, this is a question of cost/regulation/externality? > Wildlife does not reproduce at the unsustainable scale that we force cows to do so Well, yeah, true. But maybe u want to go back in time and tell your parents to have one less child? Let hope we find a balance over the next decades

EricE 5y ago

Insects can be delicious if cooked correctly (often just toasting them will do the trick). And as others have stated they are protein rich and pretty efficient to raise. I wouldn't be surprised if within the next 5 to 10 years some insect eating fad breaks out with some popular tic tok'r and suddenly our perception on them starts to flip. Social media might actually redeem itself.