3 ms·

Me too, but this is interesting in and of itself. This could make a lot of small-scale prototyping projects that much easier - no messing around with Ferric Ch

by shash 5y ago

Me too, but this is interesting in and of itself. This could make a lot of small-scale prototyping projects that much easier - no messing around with Ferric Chloride and acetone, and no waiting for the PCB to be manufactured and sent back.

bsder 5y ago
It really isn't interesting beyond the hack factor. 4 layers boards from China are cheaper than the equivalent 2-sided copper blanks. And, unless you still do everything with through-hole components, you have to plate the holes which takes you several days of futzing with nasty chemicals anyway. Here's an actually disruptive idea for great hackers: rather than continuing to diddle with making PCBs that's been solved a hundred times over, come up with an open-source pick and place that can actually do 0402 and 0201 components. It's got all the bits: gantry CNC, actuator with air, optical vision alignment via machine learning, accurate parts handling, and helps build boards. And it's a huge unsolved space. Every time I've dealt with pick and place machines short of 7 figures, I spend more time dorking with the machine than actually populating boards.
- shash 5y ago
  I'm thinking of small prototypes or production runs of one or two pieces - had a situation last year when we needed to interface between a TCP connection on one side and a 12V trigger signal on the other - just a microcontroller with an optocoupler connected on one pin and an ethernet controller on the other side. We ended up spending quite a bit, between lockdowns, the minimum order, and our (my!) own messing up the circuit. Ended up just barely making it in time. If we'd had this thing, we could have rapidly prototyped this board, discovered the mistake and made appropriate changes within a couple of days, instead of having to take more than a month...
- StavrosK 5y ago
  No. It's very interesting. Yes, 4 layer boards from China are cheap, but I don't care about cheap. I care about not having to wait, and if I can get something good enough in an hour at home, that's going to beat waiting for perfect to get shipped every time. I don't care about plating the holes, I'll solder a wire through them on both sides, done. > come up with an open-source pick and place that can actually do 0402 and 0201 components. Why? What do I care about 0201 components? I use 0805 and I can solder them fine. This problem "really isn't interesting".
- cyberdelica 5y ago
  > [...] unless you still do everything with through-hole components, you have to plate the holes which takes you several days of futzing with nasty chemicals anyway. There are copper press rivets you can buy at most PCB supply houses. No need for plating, although you do need the die set and press (although a drill press can be used). Furthermore, one can just do it the old fashioned way, with a soldered wire through connection. That's how I've done it for years.

by shash 5y ago

bsder 5y ago

It really isn't interesting beyond the hack factor. 4 layers boards from China are cheaper than the equivalent 2-sided copper blanks. And, unless you still do everything with through-hole components, you have to plate the holes which takes you several days of futzing with nasty chemicals anyway. Here's an actually disruptive idea for great hackers: rather than continuing to diddle with making PCBs that's been solved a hundred times over, come up with an open-source pick and place that can actually do 0402 and 0201 components. It's got all the bits: gantry CNC, actuator with air, optical vision alignment via machine learning, accurate parts handling, and helps build boards. And it's a huge unsolved space. Every time I've dealt with pick and place machines short of 7 figures, I spend more time dorking with the machine than actually populating boards.

shash 5y ago
I'm thinking of small prototypes or production runs of one or two pieces - had a situation last year when we needed to interface between a TCP connection on one side and a 12V trigger signal on the other - just a microcontroller with an optocoupler connected on one pin and an ethernet controller on the other side. We ended up spending quite a bit, between lockdowns, the minimum order, and our (my!) own messing up the circuit. Ended up just barely making it in time. If we'd had this thing, we could have rapidly prototyped this board, discovered the mistake and made appropriate changes within a couple of days, instead of having to take more than a month...
StavrosK 5y ago
No. It's very interesting. Yes, 4 layer boards from China are cheap, but I don't care about cheap. I care about not having to wait, and if I can get something good enough in an hour at home, that's going to beat waiting for perfect to get shipped every time. I don't care about plating the holes, I'll solder a wire through them on both sides, done. > come up with an open-source pick and place that can actually do 0402 and 0201 components. Why? What do I care about 0201 components? I use 0805 and I can solder them fine. This problem "really isn't interesting".
cyberdelica 5y ago
> [...] unless you still do everything with through-hole components, you have to plate the holes which takes you several days of futzing with nasty chemicals anyway. There are copper press rivets you can buy at most PCB supply houses. No need for plating, although you do need the die set and press (although a drill press can be used). Furthermore, one can just do it the old fashioned way, with a soldered wire through connection. That's how I've done it for years.