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Why do people insist so much about using Facebook's apps? This reads just like an addict giving bad excuses for their relapse...

by phito 5y ago

mds101 5y ago
The problem is Whatsapp has strong network effects unlike Facebook itself. Most people would be able to quit Facebook and it wouldn't make much of a difference to their lives, whereas cutting off Whatsapp would mean a daily inconvenience when you want to talk to the people closest to you.
- midasz 5y ago
  > would mean a daily inconvenience when you want to talk to the people closest to you I did exactly that and it wasn't hard at all. I still have a phone number which they can call or text. I let them know the alternatives I was reachable on, and they installed them. My family group chat is now on Telegram, my wife who still uses whatsapp says the WA family chat is basically dead. Even when I was in contact with a recruiter for the job I'm currently in it wasn't that hard. She said I'll 'App you' which means to send a message via WA. I quickly said something like ah sorry I'm not on WA but you can Telegram or just text me instead. And you know what she said? Ok. And then we texted. If it's really that big of an inconvenience for those closest to you, you have to wonder how close they really are.
  - roelschroeven 5y ago
    > My family group chat is now on Telegram Good for you, and your family, but that's simply not possible in lots of situations. My father and I tried to convert our family chat to Signal. Didn't work. I have no way to convince my coworkers to switch away from Whatsapp: they simply don't see privacy issues in the same light as I do. It's unfortunate, but at least for the time being it's simply not happening.
    - midasz 5y ago
      > My father and I tried to convert our family chat to Signal. Didn't work. Oh damn, did they just continue the whatsapp chat without you two in it? > convince my coworkers to switch away from Whatsapp You don't have to convince them to switch away from WA. You personally just need to switch away from WA. The reason it worked in my case is because I just simply stated I wasn't going to use it anymore and that they could reach me in different ways. The value is in the network effect, at the start they used Telegram just for me. But since they already had Telegram open for the group chat, they might as well use it for PM's to each other. > at least for the time being it's simply not happening There's really nothing that will change though. WA will keep working, WA will keep becoming more shit, and 99% of people will still not care as long as it works. The only difference is the people that you can reach through the medium.
      - jonp888 5y ago
        > If it's really that big of an inconvenience for those closest to you, you have to wonder how close they really are. You are in an incredibly fortunate position if you only ever have to communicate with people or groups of people who find you so significant they will change things to ensure they can reach you. I am involved in a couple of volunteer groups with about 50 members. Everything is planned and discussed in WhatsApp groups. I am a junior member with no special value to the group and if I declined to participate via WA I would just be ignored. I.E. If I stopped using WhatsApp I would no longer have any hobbies. Great result. Likewise where I live there is a massive housing shortage, 100 applicants for a flat is not unusual. If the agent wanted to use WhatsApp and I refused, he would just ignore me.
wraptile 5y ago
That's the question that has been bugging me forever and the only answer is network effect. Facebook apps _suck_. Prime example I like to use is Facebook groups - the most popular forums in the world right now and in terms of UX it could be outdone by a forum from 2004: there's no sorting, no indexing, search is non-functional, no proper formatting, no proper moderation tools, no sorting of filterting or categories - it's just insane! Nothing facebook touches is designed with UX in mind and that's by design. That goes for majority of free user services that are powered by selling user data unfortunately.
- phito 5y ago
  Oh my god yes, Facebook groups do suck. I've seen so much tension in groups related to my hobby because beginners tend to ask the same questions over and over again which is fine, but since all the posts are put together in the same feed instead of having categories, the more experienced hobbysts are getting sick of seeing these kind of posts and lash it out on the beginners. There's constant drama about this, the blame is always put on other people and never on the fact that they use a shitty platform.
- oblio 5y ago
  Facebook doesn't really want you searching or sorting. Facebook wants you asking again, creating new pages all the time, etc. Their incentives are misaligned.
- leodriesch 5y ago
  IDK if you are just talking about Facebook apps themselves, but I would say that WhatsApp and Instagram are very well written apps in terms of UX. Some of the best apps on my iPhone I would argue.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
I don't use Facebook itself but WhatsApp is required software for everyone in my country. Everybody uses it and there's just no way to communicate efficiently with anyone without it. People buy phones just to use WhatsApp.

Why do people insist so much about using Facebook's apps? This reads just like an addict giving bad excuses for their relapse...

by phito 5y ago

Why do people insist so much about using Facebook's apps? This reads just like an addict giving bad excuses for their relapse...

mds101 5y ago

The problem is Whatsapp has strong network effects unlike Facebook itself. Most people would be able to quit Facebook and it wouldn't make much of a difference to their lives, whereas cutting off Whatsapp would mean a daily inconvenience when you want to talk to the people closest to you.

midasz 5y ago
> would mean a daily inconvenience when you want to talk to the people closest to you I did exactly that and it wasn't hard at all. I still have a phone number which they can call or text. I let them know the alternatives I was reachable on, and they installed them. My family group chat is now on Telegram, my wife who still uses whatsapp says the WA family chat is basically dead. Even when I was in contact with a recruiter for the job I'm currently in it wasn't that hard. She said I'll 'App you' which means to send a message via WA. I quickly said something like ah sorry I'm not on WA but you can Telegram or just text me instead. And you know what she said? Ok. And then we texted. If it's really that big of an inconvenience for those closest to you, you have to wonder how close they really are.
- roelschroeven 5y ago
  > My family group chat is now on Telegram Good for you, and your family, but that's simply not possible in lots of situations. My father and I tried to convert our family chat to Signal. Didn't work. I have no way to convince my coworkers to switch away from Whatsapp: they simply don't see privacy issues in the same light as I do. It's unfortunate, but at least for the time being it's simply not happening.
  - midasz 5y ago
    > My father and I tried to convert our family chat to Signal. Didn't work. Oh damn, did they just continue the whatsapp chat without you two in it? > convince my coworkers to switch away from Whatsapp You don't have to convince them to switch away from WA. You personally just need to switch away from WA. The reason it worked in my case is because I just simply stated I wasn't going to use it anymore and that they could reach me in different ways. The value is in the network effect, at the start they used Telegram just for me. But since they already had Telegram open for the group chat, they might as well use it for PM's to each other. > at least for the time being it's simply not happening There's really nothing that will change though. WA will keep working, WA will keep becoming more shit, and 99% of people will still not care as long as it works. The only difference is the people that you can reach through the medium.
    - jonp888 5y ago
      > If it's really that big of an inconvenience for those closest to you, you have to wonder how close they really are. You are in an incredibly fortunate position if you only ever have to communicate with people or groups of people who find you so significant they will change things to ensure they can reach you. I am involved in a couple of volunteer groups with about 50 members. Everything is planned and discussed in WhatsApp groups. I am a junior member with no special value to the group and if I declined to participate via WA I would just be ignored. I.E. If I stopped using WhatsApp I would no longer have any hobbies. Great result. Likewise where I live there is a massive housing shortage, 100 applicants for a flat is not unusual. If the agent wanted to use WhatsApp and I refused, he would just ignore me.

wraptile 5y ago

That's the question that has been bugging me forever and the only answer is network effect. Facebook apps _suck_. Prime example I like to use is Facebook groups - the most popular forums in the world right now and in terms of UX it could be outdone by a forum from 2004: there's no sorting, no indexing, search is non-functional, no proper formatting, no proper moderation tools, no sorting of filterting or categories - it's just insane! Nothing facebook touches is designed with UX in mind and that's by design. That goes for majority of free user services that are powered by selling user data unfortunately.

phito 5y ago
Oh my god yes, Facebook groups do suck. I've seen so much tension in groups related to my hobby because beginners tend to ask the same questions over and over again which is fine, but since all the posts are put together in the same feed instead of having categories, the more experienced hobbysts are getting sick of seeing these kind of posts and lash it out on the beginners. There's constant drama about this, the blame is always put on other people and never on the fact that they use a shitty platform.
oblio 5y ago
Facebook doesn't really want you searching or sorting. Facebook wants you asking again, creating new pages all the time, etc. Their incentives are misaligned.
leodriesch 5y ago
IDK if you are just talking about Facebook apps themselves, but I would say that WhatsApp and Instagram are very well written apps in terms of UX. Some of the best apps on my iPhone I would argue.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

I don't use Facebook itself but WhatsApp is required software for everyone in my country. Everybody uses it and there's just no way to communicate efficiently with anyone without it. People buy phones just to use WhatsApp.