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>Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore I've been in this position a couple times with pay raises... and to be honest once thi

>Surprisingly that "absolutely final" position wasn't that final anymore I've been in this position a couple times with pay raises... and to be honest once this happens the job is more or less dead for me anyway. To only pay me what I asked because I'm leaving absolutely obliterates my trust.

barrkel 5y ago
There's a way to play it in a less antagonistic fashion. If you really want to stay, you can still look for another offer with the conditions you want, and use it to point out that the company is being unreasonable in its demands and that market conditions for labour have shifted, and actually they are putting themselves in a bad position trying to enforce their preferences against prevailing conditions. (IMO most people shouldn't go more than a few years without checking the job market and getting an offer, even without intent to switch jobs.)
Mountain_Skies 5y ago
I never take counteroffers and make it clear at every job that I don't take them because in my view if they could have paid me more but didn't, they were stealing from me. If I presented a case for a raise and didn't get it, they were also lying to me about the inability to give me one. Why hang around at a company like that? If I'm valuable to the company, it's foolish try to save a few dollars because it'll just end with them spending far more recruiting a replacement. I have no way of knowing if this has resulted in better salary increases over the years than if I had played it differently but it certainly feels better than working for people who I feel are cheating and lying to me.
- benjaminwootton 5y ago
  “Stealing” from you is a very confrontational view of the situation. In any negotiated situation, both sides can usually give a bit more until they reach their limit. Maybe the employee could offer an extra few hours of focussed work and the employer can offer an extra 5% salary. That’s where the negotiation lands. That can flex on either side as leverage and options move, but it’s just business. The alternative is to nail everyone to the wall in every negotiation but that doesn’t seem constructive long term.
  - agogdog 5y ago
    Stealing might be extreme, but it's certainly disrespectful. * They can pay you more * They know you're worth more than what they're paying * They know you want to be paid more * They won't pay you more until you make it as inconvenient as possible for them Businesses are comprised of individuals working together. "Just business" is a convenient excuse to be a jerk.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  Why not ask for double, triple, or 100x your salary? Your employer will probably not go under. Are they stealing this hypothetical money from you?

barrkel 5y ago

There's a way to play it in a less antagonistic fashion. If you really want to stay, you can still look for another offer with the conditions you want, and use it to point out that the company is being unreasonable in its demands and that market conditions for labour have shifted, and actually they are putting themselves in a bad position trying to enforce their preferences against prevailing conditions. (IMO most people shouldn't go more than a few years without checking the job market and getting an offer, even without intent to switch jobs.)

Mountain_Skies 5y ago

I never take counteroffers and make it clear at every job that I don't take them because in my view if they could have paid me more but didn't, they were stealing from me. If I presented a case for a raise and didn't get it, they were also lying to me about the inability to give me one. Why hang around at a company like that? If I'm valuable to the company, it's foolish try to save a few dollars because it'll just end with them spending far more recruiting a replacement. I have no way of knowing if this has resulted in better salary increases over the years than if I had played it differently but it certainly feels better than working for people who I feel are cheating and lying to me.

benjaminwootton 5y ago
“Stealing” from you is a very confrontational view of the situation. In any negotiated situation, both sides can usually give a bit more until they reach their limit. Maybe the employee could offer an extra few hours of focussed work and the employer can offer an extra 5% salary. That’s where the negotiation lands. That can flex on either side as leverage and options move, but it’s just business. The alternative is to nail everyone to the wall in every negotiation but that doesn’t seem constructive long term.
- agogdog 5y ago
  Stealing might be extreme, but it's certainly disrespectful. * They can pay you more * They know you're worth more than what they're paying * They know you want to be paid more * They won't pay you more until you make it as inconvenient as possible for them Businesses are comprised of individuals working together. "Just business" is a convenient excuse to be a jerk.
UncleMeat 5y ago
Why not ask for double, triple, or 100x your salary? Your employer will probably not go under. Are they stealing this hypothetical money from you?