6 ms·

The latter part of the article, about "The Burnout Society", maps much more to how I and others I know use the term. There was a period at my job where I was bu

• rubicon33 5y ago
  I'm curious about people who take extended time off (months, years). Do you worry at all about how that will impact your ability to retire? The drain on your savings?
  • swiley 5y ago
    I have multiple projects I'd like to think I'd put more time into, in reality I'd probably just do way more HN.
    • agf 5y ago
      One of the most important parts of my plan, and part of what I was referring to when I said "almost nothing that looks like work" is to keep a hard cap on computer time. This break is about other parts of my life. Being in the right mental place to do that is part of why now is the right time.
  • claudiulodro 5y ago
    Their total earnings over the last 10 years at their job is likely around $1mm or more, and I assume they also have assets which are appreciating in value. It doesn't seem outlandish to me, and a break after 9 years at one company sounds nice. Professors and other such people somehow find the money to take regular sabbaticals.
    • agf 5y ago
      Professors are paid (though sometimes only ~50%) during their sabbaticals. Otherwise you're exactly right.
    • binaryblitz 5y ago
      Tenured profs are generally paid to take a sabbatical and a lot of times are expected to write something to be published while they're gone.
      • claudiulodro 5y ago
        That's a neat (sort-of) perk. I didn't know that. Thanks!
      • gnicholas 5y ago
        Applies to pre-tenure professors (on the tenure track) as well. They do research/writing during this time if they want to be promoted. But once you reach the highest rank (full professor), there's not much your university can do if you aren't productive. Many professors are of course still motivated by internal drive, but there aren't strong external controls that can be exerted.
  • agf 5y ago
    For the past nine years I've worked at a place that pays well, and saved a very large percentage of my income. I did this specifically so I have the flexibility to take time off, and potentially choose jobs that don't pay nearly as well in the future, without it affecting my ability to retire. I don't want to imply I deprived myself to do this; we work in an industry where many of us can do all of that and still live beyond comfortably. While I realize this isn't an option for many people due to lack of opportunities, kids, lifestyle creep, etc., I have both planned for it and been very fortunate. So no, I'm not worried about it.
    • rubicon33 5y ago
      I guess I'm still confused. "Pays well" as in, pays well above average? I'm taking average to mean ~$130,000 in California / Bay Area. So you made well above that for 9 years AND lived somewhere with a lower cost of living? Then I could understand saving so much that you don't worry about retirement. But if you're making "good" but average salary in the bay area, and even saving a lot, you're still eating into savings to take months and years off. Maybe an easier way to ask this is... What would you consider to be enough saved in the bank, at say, 35 years old, to take a whole year off?
      • askafriend 5y ago
        I bet it'd be less than 100k to take a year off in the Bay Area with little reduction in lifestyle. A senior dev in the Bay Area working at a respectable company will get 300k per year minimum. 300k+ for 9 years will put you solidly into the 7 figures of net worth - especially if you invest well in the last decade.
        • agf 5y ago
          One of the reasons I don't usually answer financial questions like this online is because, in a sense, it really all comes down to this answer. If you make a lot of money, and you're careful, and don't get unlucky, the rest just falls into place. But hopefully my other response is helpful for people still learning how to think about saving.
  • paulcole 5y ago
    I took 3 years off from about ages 27-30. I wasn’t making a ton of money at the time (this was about a decade ago) and figured retirement was unlikely so I may as well enjoy my life now. Leading up to that point I had been living cheaply, working a full time office job and doing freelance SEO writing on the side for 5 years. I lived very cheaply, worked a few freelance jobs, burned through my savings, and ended up finding a job when I had about 6 months of expenses left in my savings account. Never had to dip into retirement or stocks though. Best time of my life. Many people like the sound of this but have no interest in actually living that way. I lived in a tiny studio apartment, rode a bicycle everywhere, ate a cheap plant based diet, and bought almost nothing.
    • david_allison 5y ago
      I'm doing this now. Do you have any advice/insights?
      • paulcole 5y ago
        Don’t feel like you have to go out and live somebody else’s retirement fantasy. The time is yours, so do what you want with it. I spent weeks watching DVDs from the library. Personally, I liked having a routine and would make a little checklist at the start of every week that I had to do everyday. I remember stuff on it being like: 1. Say hello to someone I don’t already know. 2. Brush 2x and floss. 3. Walk for 1 hour after dinner. I ended up doing some 500 sit-up program and within a year was doing like 5000 crunches a week. I also said yes to everything I was offered and wouldn’t worry about money too much. If a friend was going to a $5 concert, I could drop everything and go. I have a lot of good memories from that time. It was amazing to just feel completely free.
      • hadlock 5y ago
        Buy a really nice early 2000s road bike with a big squishy seat and a new helmet and go for a 1 hour ride every day. You'll see way more of your community than walking an hour every day. That gets you within a 6-9 mile radius from your house.
        • 5y ago
  • pmoriarty 5y ago
    "Do you worry at all about how that will impact your ability to retire? The drain on your savings?" I'm not going to be able to retire, and my savings are gone. The end of my life is likely to be quite miserable. I know my choices have lead to that. They weren't good choices, and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone. But they are the choices I made and I am reaping the consequences. If you can hack it, be all career oriented and make good choices that secure your future... more power to you if you can do that for yourself and your family.
    • czep 5y ago
      But were they really your choices? Everyday you wake up constrained by what someone who is no longer you did yesterday. Nobody is responsible for anything. I mean that philosophically of course. Give yourself a break. I recognize your name from many threads here and believe it you have made a difference. Though I don't know you personally, your words could as well be mine, so I know whereof I speak. You are not missing anything by choosing not to run in the rat race. Retirement is overrated. I will regret everything on my death bed, but that would be true no matter how I lived. To face its closure is regret enough.
      • achillesheels 5y ago
        Actually, being you today is caused by who you were yesterday. This is what makes ourselves. Not taking ownership of it is a recipe for unhappiness.
  • hadlock 5y ago
    Here's my experience (and future plans): My wife took a 6 month unpaid sabbatical about a year after we moved in together. She had been with the same company for 10 years at that point. She saved up about four months worth of rent and we just stopped eating out as much, and she paid for the rest with a ~4% personal loan through her local credit union. I think it was paid off within three months. More recently, my wife took off 1 month unpaid maternity leave. During pregnancy we both saved about 10% of our disposable income, and this more than covered her portion of the living expenses during this month. So, in the five years I've known my wife, she's taken 7 months unpaid leave. That's not a huge amount of time, but at the same time, definitely helped her avoid burnout. And we didn't have to chip in to long term savings for her to do it. I work in a different industry and job hop more often, so I just take 3 weeks unpaid in-between jobs, which is a mild strain on finances, but not significant. Other than the mortgage and boat payment we don't carry any long term debt and continue to save for retirement. As for future plans, in about five years we're planning on taking an unpaid year off, just before our kids go to primary school, but plan on doing that in a low cost of living area. Most of that year will be paid for using savings set aside for that, with any run-over paid for with low interest loans. Will it impact the long tail of my retirement? Probably to some degree, but I'd rather spend my time, now, with my kids, rather than rot away in a retirement home wishing I hadn't worked so much.
  • matttb 5y ago
    Yes, I worry about it a lot. Another thing that I worry is if I will have a lower earning potential as I age causing compounding issues.
  • tasuki 5y ago
    This really depends on one's earnings vs lifestyle. If your earnings are software-developer level and your lifestyle is cheap, it won't? If you expand your lifestyle to fit your paycheck, large house, cars, gadgets, expensive vacations etc, then yes of course extended time off will have significant negative impact.
  • ornornor 5y ago
    If you save (and invest) 50% of your net income and can live on the rest, you can basically retire in ten years. So after these 10 years you’re free to quit working for ever, work as little as you feel, and for any amount of money. In other words: you’re free to do whatever you want.
    • agf 5y ago
      20 years, not 10. ((((((((50*1.07+50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07 + 50)*1.07*0.04 = 30,000 per year income, after saving 50,000 per year and making 7% for 10 years at a 4% withdrawal rate, which is very aggressive for a retirement longer than the standard 30 years. ((((((((((((((((((50*1.06+50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06 + 50)*1.06*0.026 = 50,000 per year income, after saving 50,000 per year and making 6% for 20 years at a 2.6% withdrawal rate, which should be relatively safe even for a very long retirement.
      • ornornor 5y ago
        My bad, you’re right, it’s 65% saving rate for around 10 years.
        • rubicon33 5y ago
          How can this be true? You're telling me that you don't have to consider HOW MUCH you're saving? 50% of a McDonalds burger flipper salary while a large percentage of their salary, is still a very small amount of money. Where does this logic of 50% for 20 years come from? Seems like a serious broad "rule of thumb" kind of thing that is only just barely realistic?
          • ornornor 5y ago
            Yes it's a rule of thumb, it's not meant to be accurate to the day. And it assumes you're investing the savings to get average index market returns. It doesn't matter your actual salary, if you can get by on 35% of it and save the other 65% then it's all that matters. After you've saved for 10-11 years, you'll get the 35% of your original salary you live on, in perpetuity, from what you saved earlier. Now of course it's much easier to save 65% when you're paid more than if you're paid minimum wage, but still. And you'll probably want some slack because these numbers are really the bare minimum, but that's the idea. Saving 65% of your income as a SE is really not that hard for a lot of us, even less so when you realize this is the ticket to being free within 10-15 years.