5 ms·

Is there any recourse that would force Facebook to comply?

Nextgrid 5y ago
I am not sure. If this was some random small company you could imagine that the regulators have bigger fish to fry, but in this case this is the #1 offender worldwide when it comes to privacy - if there are "fish to fry", this is the biggest fish, and the regulator's lack of serious action (such as the million-dollar fines everyone is fear-mongering about) suggests they're either incompetent or complicit. Maybe suing your local privacy regulator in local court is the next step? Open Rights Group is taking that approach in the UK: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organisation-open-rights-group-taking-the-privacy-regulator-ico-to-court-in-a-landmark-case/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organ...
merb 5y ago
block them via dns. most users that are on facebook probably do not know how to go around that block.
- slibhb 5y ago
  Are you suggesting that the German government try to prevent its citizens from using Facebook "for their own good"?
  - ChicagoDave 5y ago
    You have to look at Facebook as a national threat. Ban it. It's the only way.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    The same is being done with the pirate bay in many EU countries, it's not unprecedented. Though I agree it's unlikely here.
hesk 5y ago
Fine them 4% of their annual revenue.
- hexo 5y ago
  80% of revenue would teach them better
  - throwaway3699 5y ago
    Sucking up 4% of revenue is catastrophic enough (that is probably double digits of profit). The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company.
    - BugWatch 5y ago
      In this case, plenty of us won't be shedding any tears.
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      > The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company. Why not, out of curiosity? We don't make this distinction for low-income folks who get parking tickets. If you don't make them truly punitive why comply? It just gets factored into the cost of doing business.
      - TulliusCicero 5y ago
        You could just do both: start with relatively modest fines, then escalate if they don't comply.
        arcticbull 5y ago
        Yup, that's more or less what I had in mind.
        NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
        Exponentially?
Stranger43 5y ago
The EU courts could go after any assets/companies associated with Facebook operating in the EU and basically dissolve them as bankrupt if they fail to pay their increasing fines. Another venue is to go directly after Facebooks European customers and make it illegal for any company to pay Facebook for ads targeting European customers. In the end this would force Facebook to abandon Europe and lead to local competitors taking over that market weakening Facebooks network effects in non-US markets. this is an escalation and delaying game and so far facebook is banking on some political saving grace that probably wont come as well privacy is considered an human rights by European courts and not something an simple short term political majority can simply erase because it's convenient for some US megacorp.
- thewarrior 5y ago
  I would expect that the US government would apply diplomatic pressure to prevent such outcomes as it would lead to copycat measures.
  - Stranger43 5y ago
    The question here is does the US have any leverage left as it's not like the American diplomatic service haven't tried pressure European regulators and courts to water down the enforcement of European privacy regulation since it was enacted. If the showdown happens in the highly independent German court system, i just don't see how American political pressure is going to stop the slow but steady path of escalating measures likely to be taken if Facebook refuses to comply with court rulings.
- tablespoon 5y ago
  I wonder if they could put an arrest warrant out for Mark Zuckerberg for something like contempt of court?
grishka 5y ago
I remember there were plans to require large social platforms, of which Facebook is the largest, to at least provide an equal access to as much API as their official apps have, and at most support interoperability (federation).

I am not sure. If this was some random small company you could imagine that the regulators have bigger fish to fry, but in this case this is the #1 offender worldwide when it comes to privacy - if there are "fish to fry", this is the biggest fish, and the regulator's lack of serious action (such as the million-dollar fines everyone is fear-mongering about) suggests they're either incompetent or complicit. Maybe suing your local privacy regulator in local court is the next step? Open Rights Group is taking that approach in the UK: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organisation-open-rights-group-taking-the-privacy-regulator-ico-to-court-in-a-landmark-case/ https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/privacy-organ...

merb 5y ago

block them via dns. most users that are on facebook probably do not know how to go around that block.

slibhb 5y ago
Are you suggesting that the German government try to prevent its citizens from using Facebook "for their own good"?
- ChicagoDave 5y ago
  You have to look at Facebook as a national threat. Ban it. It's the only way.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  The same is being done with the pirate bay in many EU countries, it's not unprecedented. Though I agree it's unlikely here.

hesk 5y ago

Fine them 4% of their annual revenue.

hexo 5y ago
80% of revenue would teach them better
- throwaway3699 5y ago
  Sucking up 4% of revenue is catastrophic enough (that is probably double digits of profit). The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company.
  - BugWatch 5y ago
    In this case, plenty of us won't be shedding any tears.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    > The goal of fines isn't to make be an extinction level event for a company. Why not, out of curiosity? We don't make this distinction for low-income folks who get parking tickets. If you don't make them truly punitive why comply? It just gets factored into the cost of doing business.
    - TulliusCicero 5y ago
      You could just do both: start with relatively modest fines, then escalate if they don't comply.
      - arcticbull 5y ago
        Yup, that's more or less what I had in mind.
      - NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
        Exponentially?

Stranger43 5y ago

The EU courts could go after any assets/companies associated with Facebook operating in the EU and basically dissolve them as bankrupt if they fail to pay their increasing fines. Another venue is to go directly after Facebooks European customers and make it illegal for any company to pay Facebook for ads targeting European customers. In the end this would force Facebook to abandon Europe and lead to local competitors taking over that market weakening Facebooks network effects in non-US markets. this is an escalation and delaying game and so far facebook is banking on some political saving grace that probably wont come as well privacy is considered an human rights by European courts and not something an simple short term political majority can simply erase because it's convenient for some US megacorp.

thewarrior 5y ago
I would expect that the US government would apply diplomatic pressure to prevent such outcomes as it would lead to copycat measures.
- Stranger43 5y ago
  The question here is does the US have any leverage left as it's not like the American diplomatic service haven't tried pressure European regulators and courts to water down the enforcement of European privacy regulation since it was enacted. If the showdown happens in the highly independent German court system, i just don't see how American political pressure is going to stop the slow but steady path of escalating measures likely to be taken if Facebook refuses to comply with court rulings.
tablespoon 5y ago
I wonder if they could put an arrest warrant out for Mark Zuckerberg for something like contempt of court?

grishka 5y ago

I remember there were plans to require large social platforms, of which Facebook is the largest, to at least provide an equal access to as much API as their official apps have, and at most support interoperability (federation).