5 ms·

<100$ GPS car trackers that use cellular and are arguably better for tracking cars already exist.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
They are much more expensive and require way more power, so they can't track you for a year without recharging. Also, they need to transmit data using cellular network, which also drains a lot of power. The problem is that this new service makes such snooping very casual.
- fastball 5y ago
  "Casual stalker" sounds like an oxymoron to me.
  - gnicholas 5y ago
    That may change, as people realize how easy it is to track others. Will there be stories of guys who 'accidentally' leave their keys/backpack/jacket in the car of some girl who gave them a ride home from a party? I wouldn't be surprised if within a year we start seeing devices that can scan for nearby Airtags/Tiles/etc. so you can see if there's anything in your car before you head home.
    - spideymans 5y ago
      >Will there be stories of guys who 'accidentally' leave their keys/backpack/jacket in the car of some girl who gave them a ride home from a party? Damn, that is a good point. It'll be very difficult to prove that anyone stalking using AirTags had malicious/illegal intent. Far harder than, say, a purpose-built GPS tracker.
- katbyte 5y ago
  you can get ones that can last 3-4 weeds and cost about the same and unlike airtags there are no anti stalking measures, not to mention tile is exactly the same. Snooping was already very easy and casual and all airtags are doing is making people realize it and of all the trackers the only ones with any sort of anti stalking.
  - darkarmani 5y ago
    > Snooping was already very easy and casual and all airtags are doing is making people realize it So they are making the problem much worse? That's not really a defense.
    - sneak 5y ago
      More visible, not worse. Arguably better, due to illuminating the existing problem.
LeifCarrotson 5y ago
<$30 Bluetooth low-energy trackers (eg Tile, TrackR, Cube) that don't use cellular and last for years on coin cells also exist. Obviously, without GPS and without cellular they rely on being near someone with a smartphone in the crowdshared location system. I think Tile (prior to AirTag) was the biggest, they've got around 10 million sold, probably on the order of 1 million active users once you discount people who own multiple units, or replacements of previously sold Tiles, etc. As a Tile user, this was sufficient for my needs. If I lost my Tile in a public place, something like 1 in 300 people had the app and I'd have decent odds of getting an update in a couple days. I inadvertently left my bag in a coworker's car once, they don't have a Tile but it pinged a couple times during their commute as they passed other cars with Tile owners. But neither they nor their neighbors had Tiles, so it didn't give their home address. Tile doesn't make a big deal out of mitigating car-tracking or stalking abuses of its products, because it's not really big enough to be a problem. Now, though, there are something like 120 million iPhone users. I don't know how many choose to opt out of the default "Find My" setting, I'd guess that both that population and the population of people who even know it exists are both negligible, so I assume something like 150 in every 300 people are in Apple's crowdsourced location service. Speaking of populations that may or may not know something exists: lots of people who don't know about and wouldn't buy a GPS car tracker are likely to end up with an Airtag on their keychain. By introducing the product, Apple is inviting the idea "what if I dropped that in someone's bag" to come across a hundred million minds. Scale matters. At Apple volumes, mitigations like this are smart and will likely prevent crimes from occurring. At Tile's volume, it doesn't matter that much. I'm sure Tile (or a niche manufacturer of GPS fleet trackers) would love to have that problem, but they simply don't.

They are much more expensive and require way more power, so they can't track you for a year without recharging. Also, they need to transmit data using cellular network, which also drains a lot of power. The problem is that this new service makes such snooping very casual.

fastball 5y ago
"Casual stalker" sounds like an oxymoron to me.
- gnicholas 5y ago
  That may change, as people realize how easy it is to track others. Will there be stories of guys who 'accidentally' leave their keys/backpack/jacket in the car of some girl who gave them a ride home from a party? I wouldn't be surprised if within a year we start seeing devices that can scan for nearby Airtags/Tiles/etc. so you can see if there's anything in your car before you head home.
  - spideymans 5y ago
    >Will there be stories of guys who 'accidentally' leave their keys/backpack/jacket in the car of some girl who gave them a ride home from a party? Damn, that is a good point. It'll be very difficult to prove that anyone stalking using AirTags had malicious/illegal intent. Far harder than, say, a purpose-built GPS tracker.
katbyte 5y ago
you can get ones that can last 3-4 weeds and cost about the same and unlike airtags there are no anti stalking measures, not to mention tile is exactly the same. Snooping was already very easy and casual and all airtags are doing is making people realize it and of all the trackers the only ones with any sort of anti stalking.
- darkarmani 5y ago
  > Snooping was already very easy and casual and all airtags are doing is making people realize it So they are making the problem much worse? That's not really a defense.
  - sneak 5y ago
    More visible, not worse. Arguably better, due to illuminating the existing problem.

LeifCarrotson 5y ago

<$30 Bluetooth low-energy trackers (eg Tile, TrackR, Cube) that don't use cellular and last for years on coin cells also exist. Obviously, without GPS and without cellular they rely on being near someone with a smartphone in the crowdshared location system. I think Tile (prior to AirTag) was the biggest, they've got around 10 million sold, probably on the order of 1 million active users once you discount people who own multiple units, or replacements of previously sold Tiles, etc. As a Tile user, this was sufficient for my needs. If I lost my Tile in a public place, something like 1 in 300 people had the app and I'd have decent odds of getting an update in a couple days. I inadvertently left my bag in a coworker's car once, they don't have a Tile but it pinged a couple times during their commute as they passed other cars with Tile owners. But neither they nor their neighbors had Tiles, so it didn't give their home address. Tile doesn't make a big deal out of mitigating car-tracking or stalking abuses of its products, because it's not really big enough to be a problem. Now, though, there are something like 120 million iPhone users. I don't know how many choose to opt out of the default "Find My" setting, I'd guess that both that population and the population of people who even know it exists are both negligible, so I assume something like 150 in every 300 people are in Apple's crowdsourced location service. Speaking of populations that may or may not know something exists: lots of people who don't know about and wouldn't buy a GPS car tracker are likely to end up with an Airtag on their keychain. By introducing the product, Apple is inviting the idea "what if I dropped that in someone's bag" to come across a hundred million minds. Scale matters. At Apple volumes, mitigations like this are smart and will likely prevent crimes from occurring. At Tile's volume, it doesn't matter that much. I'm sure Tile (or a niche manufacturer of GPS fleet trackers) would love to have that problem, but they simply don't.