7 ms·

Couldn't this be a positive long term benefit of Corona? A push back against globalisation and more domestic production in each region of the world.

XGeneral 5y ago
> A push back against globalisation and more domestic production in each region of the world. There are many countries that have always wanted to be self reliant but the powers be can't allow it. Coz it's sets a bad example that countries can exist without certain giants. I don't think they are about to allow that
- Nasrudith 5y ago
  For damned good reason. "Self reliant" countries tend to behave like complete assholes internationally even by the standards of Realpolitik. North Korea is one of the most Autarkous nations on earth. The "victimized by a conspiracy" anthromorphization is also deeply wrong. They cannot be oppressed - they do not have rights. Governments are fundamentally made of coercion. Without it they are an empty pile of words, a rules card for poker when the deck is being used for blackjack or building houses of cards. The coercion may be used to support rights like "not being murdered" but granting it rights to further human rights is like trying to increase a number by multiplying a negative number by a grearer than one positive number. To sum it up if you apply the "corporation as a sociopath" conception governments are basically so alien to be cthulu. Corporations are at least made of people essentially, at least until the first AI run no human owner corporation is founded.
chrischen 5y ago
Globalization has benefits too, like preventing world war due to heavy interdependencies.
- paganel 5y ago
  The same discourse was made before WW1, and we all know how that turned out. As far as I could tell the world was even more globalised back then, at least for the elites.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > As far as I could tell the world was even more globalised back then It was not. How could it be? Cheap and fast long range transportation, the Internet, mass consumerism,interconnected financial systems... What could possibly make you think the world was more globalised in the 1910s than 2020s? And yes, many people said a war is impossible due to the globalisation. I guess what they missed was telling it to the people in charge ( many of whom,like the Kaiser and Tsar didn't want a war, but felt pressured and like it was inevitable).
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      European economies were fairly integrated, though. Not as much as today, but enough that the war caused a massive disruption to everyone involved. Europe of 1914 was actually much more liberal than people tend to think. With the exception of Russia and Turkey, which required passports from visitors, you could travel passport-free around the entire Europe, settle down and work wherever you wanted. There were many railway lines crossing the borders and cargo flows among countries were fairly heavy. The social elite was used to sending their kids abroad to study languages and spending vacations in fashionable foreign resorts.
      - chrischen 5y ago
        If there was enough of a concentration of power then those things don't matter as much, but even then they'd be considered deterrents to war. Given we mostly have democratically elected governments now war will be much harder to sell.
    - paganel 5y ago
      > What could possibly make you think the world was more globalised in the 1910s than 2020s? For example borders were a lot more porous in the late 1800s - early 1900s compared to the 2020s, Ellis Island could have never happened today, when you have children from El Salvador or Guatemala kept in cages for basically doing the same thing that children from Calabria or Sicily were doing back then.
alexgmcm 5y ago
Isn't it a net benefit to everyone if each country pursues its comparative advantage though? I don't see why becoming some sort of Juche state would help anyone.
colinmhayes 5y ago
Globalization is a good thing. It is directly responsible for the almost complete elimination of global poverty.
- toomuchredbull 5y ago
  It has been great for the global poor. Terrible for the western middle class.
vntx 5y ago
Globalization is not what happened during the last few decades. Investing your entire supply chain in China is not globalization. Corona is causing a push back against sinicization. If the world actually did have globalized production, the pandemic, which originated in China, would probably have hurt relatively less.

XGeneral 5y ago

> A push back against globalisation and more domestic production in each region of the world. There are many countries that have always wanted to be self reliant but the powers be can't allow it. Coz it's sets a bad example that countries can exist without certain giants. I don't think they are about to allow that

Nasrudith 5y ago
For damned good reason. "Self reliant" countries tend to behave like complete assholes internationally even by the standards of Realpolitik. North Korea is one of the most Autarkous nations on earth. The "victimized by a conspiracy" anthromorphization is also deeply wrong. They cannot be oppressed - they do not have rights. Governments are fundamentally made of coercion. Without it they are an empty pile of words, a rules card for poker when the deck is being used for blackjack or building houses of cards. The coercion may be used to support rights like "not being murdered" but granting it rights to further human rights is like trying to increase a number by multiplying a negative number by a grearer than one positive number. To sum it up if you apply the "corporation as a sociopath" conception governments are basically so alien to be cthulu. Corporations are at least made of people essentially, at least until the first AI run no human owner corporation is founded.

chrischen 5y ago

Globalization has benefits too, like preventing world war due to heavy interdependencies.

paganel 5y ago
The same discourse was made before WW1, and we all know how that turned out. As far as I could tell the world was even more globalised back then, at least for the elites.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > As far as I could tell the world was even more globalised back then It was not. How could it be? Cheap and fast long range transportation, the Internet, mass consumerism,interconnected financial systems... What could possibly make you think the world was more globalised in the 1910s than 2020s? And yes, many people said a war is impossible due to the globalisation. I guess what they missed was telling it to the people in charge ( many of whom,like the Kaiser and Tsar didn't want a war, but felt pressured and like it was inevitable).
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    European economies were fairly integrated, though. Not as much as today, but enough that the war caused a massive disruption to everyone involved. Europe of 1914 was actually much more liberal than people tend to think. With the exception of Russia and Turkey, which required passports from visitors, you could travel passport-free around the entire Europe, settle down and work wherever you wanted. There were many railway lines crossing the borders and cargo flows among countries were fairly heavy. The social elite was used to sending their kids abroad to study languages and spending vacations in fashionable foreign resorts.
    - chrischen 5y ago
      If there was enough of a concentration of power then those things don't matter as much, but even then they'd be considered deterrents to war. Given we mostly have democratically elected governments now war will be much harder to sell.
  - paganel 5y ago
    > What could possibly make you think the world was more globalised in the 1910s than 2020s? For example borders were a lot more porous in the late 1800s - early 1900s compared to the 2020s, Ellis Island could have never happened today, when you have children from El Salvador or Guatemala kept in cages for basically doing the same thing that children from Calabria or Sicily were doing back then.

alexgmcm 5y ago

Isn't it a net benefit to everyone if each country pursues its comparative advantage though? I don't see why becoming some sort of Juche state would help anyone.

colinmhayes 5y ago

Globalization is a good thing. It is directly responsible for the almost complete elimination of global poverty.

toomuchredbull 5y ago
It has been great for the global poor. Terrible for the western middle class.

vntx 5y ago

Globalization is not what happened during the last few decades. Investing your entire supply chain in China is not globalization. Corona is causing a push back against sinicization. If the world actually did have globalized production, the pandemic, which originated in China, would probably have hurt relatively less.