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The main complaint about it “tracking the friend” seems invalid. The tag isn’t “moving with him”, it’s sitting on a counter. That isn’t tracking, more accurat

The main complaint about it “tracking the friend” seems invalid. The tag isn’t “moving with him”, it’s sitting on a counter. That isn’t tracking, more accurately it’s basically a lost tag at that point.

fjni 5y ago
I think this is a great question. And I don't have an answer for it. I do think it's much less clear though: If I attach it to your car to find out where you're parking your car, according to your logic it also presumably wouldn't trigger. But it's still a problematic and unintended use of the technology. What if I merely want to find out where you live, not where you are at any point in time. This creates lots of problems for people at increased risk here that to me aren't answered sufficiently.
- hundchenkatze 5y ago
  The difference is that a tag mailed to someone didn't follow them and their iPhone, it just shows up one day. In that case the person sending the tag obviously already knows where you live anyway. In your example, attaching it to someone's car (presumably while at work, shopping, etc) it will follow them home and their iPhone would see that tag the entire trip until they get home at which point it would notify the tracked person.
  - fjni 5y ago
    Got it! The distinction being that the location changed while in the vicinity of one iphone. Thanks for clarifying!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    So I am an evil stalker, and I want to find out where my target lives. I know the Target has a Spouse. I stalk both, and spot that Target uses an iPhone, but Spouse uses an Android phone. I attach the AirTag to Spouse's bag/jacket, in hopes they'll bring it home. With luck, from the POV of Target's phone, the tag will look like it just "showed up one day", at least for a while. End of story. As a real me, I'd hope that one could bring the tag to the police, and law enforcement would be able to get the details on the person who owns it? Assuming the answer is "yes", this should deter most malicious use, as even with a burner iPhone/Apple account, the owner of that tracker would be exposing a big trail of their activities.
    - pradn 5y ago
      Another scenario is putting an AirTag on the bottom of someone's car, waiting for them to go home, going to their home, and taking the AirTag off. There's more risk here, but it's impossible to do. Or to remove the risk, you can drain the battery til it's got just enough to go a few more miles. Then, it'll keep pinging you the location and die when it gets to their house. With 3 days of leeway, you don't have to be too exact. It's even easier if you know they aren't going to using their car at the destination. Like if they're going camping or something.
      - tshaddox 5y ago
        You've gained very little in that scenario over simply following their car home.
      - theshrike79 5y ago
        You could just hide an old iPhone with Find My enabled in the car. Or a $20 GPS tracker from Aliexpress. Much more reliable and accurate, zero chance to be found if you hide the device well. People are inventing the weirdest scenarios to make AirTags be some kind of super stalking tool. =)
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      In your hypothetical scenario what have you (the stalker) saved other than the trouble of following one of the targets home once? Or placing any number of existing tracking devices (like a cheap smartphone) in one of their bags? Or, you know, looking them up in the phone book?
      - avh02 5y ago
        you know people don't only go home. they have affairs, they may be undercover agents, or they may be doing something they're not proud of (legal or not).
        jeromegv 5y ago
        All those things are possible with tons of device on the market, and has been possible for years. I don't really know what your point is. Yes, this can be used in a bad way. Just like the car you purchase can be used in a bad way, to kill pedestrians. But what is the point of those what-if scenarios?
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    > In your example, attaching it to someone's car (presumably while at work, shopping, etc) it will follow them home and their iPhone would see that tag the entire trip until they get home at which point it would notify the tracked person. Okay, but is that really different than driving down a random street, choosing a random house with a car in the driveway, and thus learning that that car parks at that address? Knowing that the car you chose to put a tag on at the store later parked at a certain address is hardly that useful, isn't much easier than just following the car from the store one time, and presumably wouldn't upset most people because most people's security models don't rely on their home address being private and thus no one ever following their car home from the store.
    - hundchenkatze 5y ago
      I was only clarifying the difference between mailing someone a tag versus attaching a tag to someone or something they own. Sure if you already know the person's car then just follow them.
- spaceywilly 5y ago
  If the airtag is away from its owner for 3 days it will play an audible sound when moved, so in your use cases the airtag would reveal itself to the user after 3 days. That still does not seem ideal though, 3 days is a long time. Also, in the article I'm guessing it didn't chime because it was never moved, which also seems like something they didn't think about. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/21/airtags-play-sound-after-three-days/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/21/airtags-play-sound-afte...
  - barbegal 5y ago
    You can very easily open the tag up and disconnect the wires that connect to the speaker coil so it makes no noise.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- mehphp 5y ago
  No, in the case of attaching it to the car it is moving with you (and would thus trigger the alert). Your point still stands though that it can be used like that to find out where someone lives.

fjni 5y ago

I think this is a great question. And I don't have an answer for it. I do think it's much less clear though: If I attach it to your car to find out where you're parking your car, according to your logic it also presumably wouldn't trigger. But it's still a problematic and unintended use of the technology. What if I merely want to find out where you live, not where you are at any point in time. This creates lots of problems for people at increased risk here that to me aren't answered sufficiently.

hundchenkatze 5y ago
The difference is that a tag mailed to someone didn't follow them and their iPhone, it just shows up one day. In that case the person sending the tag obviously already knows where you live anyway. In your example, attaching it to someone's car (presumably while at work, shopping, etc) it will follow them home and their iPhone would see that tag the entire trip until they get home at which point it would notify the tracked person.
- fjni 5y ago
  Got it! The distinction being that the location changed while in the vicinity of one iphone. Thanks for clarifying!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  So I am an evil stalker, and I want to find out where my target lives. I know the Target has a Spouse. I stalk both, and spot that Target uses an iPhone, but Spouse uses an Android phone. I attach the AirTag to Spouse's bag/jacket, in hopes they'll bring it home. With luck, from the POV of Target's phone, the tag will look like it just "showed up one day", at least for a while. End of story. As a real me, I'd hope that one could bring the tag to the police, and law enforcement would be able to get the details on the person who owns it? Assuming the answer is "yes", this should deter most malicious use, as even with a burner iPhone/Apple account, the owner of that tracker would be exposing a big trail of their activities.
  - pradn 5y ago
    Another scenario is putting an AirTag on the bottom of someone's car, waiting for them to go home, going to their home, and taking the AirTag off. There's more risk here, but it's impossible to do. Or to remove the risk, you can drain the battery til it's got just enough to go a few more miles. Then, it'll keep pinging you the location and die when it gets to their house. With 3 days of leeway, you don't have to be too exact. It's even easier if you know they aren't going to using their car at the destination. Like if they're going camping or something.
    - tshaddox 5y ago
      You've gained very little in that scenario over simply following their car home.
    - theshrike79 5y ago
      You could just hide an old iPhone with Find My enabled in the car. Or a $20 GPS tracker from Aliexpress. Much more reliable and accurate, zero chance to be found if you hide the device well. People are inventing the weirdest scenarios to make AirTags be some kind of super stalking tool. =)
  - tshaddox 5y ago
    In your hypothetical scenario what have you (the stalker) saved other than the trouble of following one of the targets home once? Or placing any number of existing tracking devices (like a cheap smartphone) in one of their bags? Or, you know, looking them up in the phone book?
    - avh02 5y ago
      you know people don't only go home. they have affairs, they may be undercover agents, or they may be doing something they're not proud of (legal or not).
      - jeromegv 5y ago
        All those things are possible with tons of device on the market, and has been possible for years. I don't really know what your point is. Yes, this can be used in a bad way. Just like the car you purchase can be used in a bad way, to kill pedestrians. But what is the point of those what-if scenarios?
- tshaddox 5y ago
  > In your example, attaching it to someone's car (presumably while at work, shopping, etc) it will follow them home and their iPhone would see that tag the entire trip until they get home at which point it would notify the tracked person. Okay, but is that really different than driving down a random street, choosing a random house with a car in the driveway, and thus learning that that car parks at that address? Knowing that the car you chose to put a tag on at the store later parked at a certain address is hardly that useful, isn't much easier than just following the car from the store one time, and presumably wouldn't upset most people because most people's security models don't rely on their home address being private and thus no one ever following their car home from the store.
  - hundchenkatze 5y ago
    I was only clarifying the difference between mailing someone a tag versus attaching a tag to someone or something they own. Sure if you already know the person's car then just follow them.
spaceywilly 5y ago
If the airtag is away from its owner for 3 days it will play an audible sound when moved, so in your use cases the airtag would reveal itself to the user after 3 days. That still does not seem ideal though, 3 days is a long time. Also, in the article I'm guessing it didn't chime because it was never moved, which also seems like something they didn't think about. https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/21/airtags-play-sound-after-three-days/ https://www.macrumors.com/2021/04/21/airtags-play-sound-afte...
- barbegal 5y ago
  You can very easily open the tag up and disconnect the wires that connect to the speaker coil so it makes no noise.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
mehphp 5y ago
No, in the case of attaching it to the car it is moving with you (and would thus trigger the alert). Your point still stands though that it can be used like that to find out where someone lives.