4 ms·

I think more than a left-right thing, this is a different axis. Some people are just more fearful in general. I've been surprised by friends of my same politica

I think more than a left-right thing, this is a different axis. Some people are just more fearful in general. I've been surprised by friends of my same political persuasion that have acted in ways I would honestly need to call, not-quite-sane. Such as deciding now to keep their child out of school for the entire 21-22 school year, or leaving deliveries on their porch for 3 days before bringing it inside. These are smart people in many ways, but somehow their brains were hijacked. Talking to them about the actual risks triggers an emotional response. Even relating the risk level to something they do every day like driving seems to have no effect. These are people who are educated and consume news from respectable sources.

whipaway 5y ago
This is an intersection of so many things: politics (outsourcing your judgment to your enemy and effectively just doing the opposite of them), brain-structure propensity for fear, esteem for authorities and experts (fundamentally the tendency towards authoritarianism, whether it's based in expertise or other things), class tendencies that value visible signals of virtue, intelligence and taste, etc.
- JPKab 5y ago
  Extremely well stated and reasoned.
JPKab 5y ago
My brother's wife is one of these folks you talk about, with the "keeping kids out of school" and "leaving deliveries on porch for 3 days". Very well said! What I'm very curious about is what makes me perceive risk so much differently than these others. I'm wondering if it's conditioning (I spent a big chunk of my life building houses, and therefore climbing on extension ladders and walking on roof trusses was a daily ritual), childhood (I was in unstable environments a lot), or just brain wiring from birth. A respondent on your comment mentioned a willingness to "outsource judgement to news sources" and even better "outsourcing judgement to political rivals and adopting the opposite viewpoint by default". This is a phenomenon that I anecdotally notice is intensified with educated elites. My brother's wife went to Cornell, never struck me as particularly creative or novel, but just has a great work ethic and follows what books tell her to do. She's a born rule follower, and follows conventional wisdom to the point where it borders on comical and often, defying common sense.
- korethr 5y ago
  > What I'm very curious about is what makes me perceive risk so much differently than these others. I'm wondering if it's conditioning (I spent a big chunk of my life building houses, and therefore climbing on extension ladders and walking on roof trusses was a daily ritual), childhood (I was in unstable environments a lot), or just brain wiring from birth. I'm guessing conditioning is a big part of it. I'd wager the majority or people with more hysterical reactions have lived fairly comfortable lives, without having to face much in the way of dangerous risks. And without that, they also fail to also learn that risks and dangers can be controlled and mitigated. Or that even mild preparedness can mean the difference between recoverable injury and death. So absent this personal experience of a counterpoint to the hysteria on the news, they're more likely to accept prognostications of certain horrible doom uncritically.
  - whipaway 5y ago
    Yea I think back to generations past, where you'd find yourself being sent to Normandy or something or stationed on a ship that just got hit by a torpedo. Chance of death - >>1%. Now healthy people with a fraction of a percent risk of hospitalization, much less death, act like agoraphobes - apparently willing to do so indefinitely. Far removed from the experience of the world as it is, dependent on the comfort of advanced human technology, people have become debilitated by the mere idea of the challenges that their ancestors overcame and readily coped with. Courage is gone, and it's perhaps the most important virtue that allows one to get through life and face the insurmountable challenges that all of us will encounter.
    - JPKab 5y ago
      What's really interesting is how many of my comments on this topic have been downvoted to oblivion with absolutely no responses from the people doing the downvoting. I think a willingness to face temporary discomfort is something that seems to be in decline with specific members of the younger cohort of the millennial generation. This translates to journalism where you have a new generation of journalist who produces clickbait all day but never goes and interviews people in person and certainly doesn't do so over the phone. Think about how many people you know are unwilling to make phone calls and prefer text messages almost exclusively. That's not a huge deal but many of these same people are extremely uncomfortable interacting over a telephone with strangers. It's a really bad recipe for quality journalism. Any attempt to have nuanced discussions on these topics immediately makes the sectarian politicos come out in droves and assume that you are a supporter of the previous president even if you aren't. Trying to discuss the extremely plausible scenario of an accidental lab leak makes people assume you're a Trump supporter, for example. My opinion is that if he wasn't so ridiculously ignorant and unwilling to show vulnerability by engaging in topics he knows nothing about and attempting to learn, we would be in a much better place with this pandemic. Instead he didn't want to do that and simply offloaded all thinking to Fauci, but then simultaneously would attack him whenever he was speaking to certain groups.

whipaway 5y ago

This is an intersection of so many things: politics (outsourcing your judgment to your enemy and effectively just doing the opposite of them), brain-structure propensity for fear, esteem for authorities and experts (fundamentally the tendency towards authoritarianism, whether it's based in expertise or other things), class tendencies that value visible signals of virtue, intelligence and taste, etc.

JPKab 5y ago
Extremely well stated and reasoned.

JPKab 5y ago

My brother's wife is one of these folks you talk about, with the "keeping kids out of school" and "leaving deliveries on porch for 3 days". Very well said! What I'm very curious about is what makes me perceive risk so much differently than these others. I'm wondering if it's conditioning (I spent a big chunk of my life building houses, and therefore climbing on extension ladders and walking on roof trusses was a daily ritual), childhood (I was in unstable environments a lot), or just brain wiring from birth. A respondent on your comment mentioned a willingness to "outsource judgement to news sources" and even better "outsourcing judgement to political rivals and adopting the opposite viewpoint by default". This is a phenomenon that I anecdotally notice is intensified with educated elites. My brother's wife went to Cornell, never struck me as particularly creative or novel, but just has a great work ethic and follows what books tell her to do. She's a born rule follower, and follows conventional wisdom to the point where it borders on comical and often, defying common sense.

korethr 5y ago
> What I'm very curious about is what makes me perceive risk so much differently than these others. I'm wondering if it's conditioning (I spent a big chunk of my life building houses, and therefore climbing on extension ladders and walking on roof trusses was a daily ritual), childhood (I was in unstable environments a lot), or just brain wiring from birth. I'm guessing conditioning is a big part of it. I'd wager the majority or people with more hysterical reactions have lived fairly comfortable lives, without having to face much in the way of dangerous risks. And without that, they also fail to also learn that risks and dangers can be controlled and mitigated. Or that even mild preparedness can mean the difference between recoverable injury and death. So absent this personal experience of a counterpoint to the hysteria on the news, they're more likely to accept prognostications of certain horrible doom uncritically.
- whipaway 5y ago
  Yea I think back to generations past, where you'd find yourself being sent to Normandy or something or stationed on a ship that just got hit by a torpedo. Chance of death - >>1%. Now healthy people with a fraction of a percent risk of hospitalization, much less death, act like agoraphobes - apparently willing to do so indefinitely. Far removed from the experience of the world as it is, dependent on the comfort of advanced human technology, people have become debilitated by the mere idea of the challenges that their ancestors overcame and readily coped with. Courage is gone, and it's perhaps the most important virtue that allows one to get through life and face the insurmountable challenges that all of us will encounter.
  - JPKab 5y ago
    What's really interesting is how many of my comments on this topic have been downvoted to oblivion with absolutely no responses from the people doing the downvoting. I think a willingness to face temporary discomfort is something that seems to be in decline with specific members of the younger cohort of the millennial generation. This translates to journalism where you have a new generation of journalist who produces clickbait all day but never goes and interviews people in person and certainly doesn't do so over the phone. Think about how many people you know are unwilling to make phone calls and prefer text messages almost exclusively. That's not a huge deal but many of these same people are extremely uncomfortable interacting over a telephone with strangers. It's a really bad recipe for quality journalism. Any attempt to have nuanced discussions on these topics immediately makes the sectarian politicos come out in droves and assume that you are a supporter of the previous president even if you aren't. Trying to discuss the extremely plausible scenario of an accidental lab leak makes people assume you're a Trump supporter, for example. My opinion is that if he wasn't so ridiculously ignorant and unwilling to show vulnerability by engaging in topics he knows nothing about and attempting to learn, we would be in a much better place with this pandemic. Instead he didn't want to do that and simply offloaded all thinking to Fauci, but then simultaneously would attack him whenever he was speaking to certain groups.