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It really makes me sad. Apple used a lot of free and open technologies like FreeBSD to build their business, and they created these amazing, small computers. T

It really makes me sad. Apple used a lot of free and open technologies like FreeBSD to build their business, and they created these amazing, small computers. The people that developed these amazing small computers and their operating systems, as kids, likely had some desktop pc that shipped with a language like QBasic where they could learn programming and build things and share with friends. Kids who buy these new small computers from Apple, not only does it not ship with such a thing, but its not even possible to download or buy a programming environment! We built computers with brains the size of a planet, they fit in our pocket, and they have been castrated such that they are no good for creating anything, for no good reason.

dapids 5y ago
Millions of people build and create things on Mac computers, they have the XCode IDE and multiple natively supported languages, swift, objc, C++, C, Python, JavaScript, it's all built-in. Am I missing something?
- Steltek 5y ago
  The topic was iOS devices, not macOS.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I mean, XCode is not only proprietary, but it's also horribly designed. Installing it is a nightmare that will use more than half of your Macs storage, and updating it takes longer than updating your own OS. What the original commentor is complaining about is how Apple stood on the shoulders of giants without giving back, only to turn around and wow the world with a product that is only 20-30% theirs. It's been a practice for as long as capitalism has existed, but for a company that operates on such blatantly wide profit margins and runs a socially conscious ad campaign, it seems a little stupid to at least not pay homage to the people who helped make your product. It's a bit of tragic irony that you can't even use the tools that Apple used to make MacOS on a Mac.
- arvinsim 5y ago
  I am pretty sure that the poster was referring to phones, not laptops, when he posted about computers that can fit in the pocket.
- dapids 5y ago
  Ah sorry missed the part about mobile. But in any case, this isn't true, there has been playground for quite a long time on iOS. The portions of BSD which XNU uses is quite small, and is quite a mismatch of things from all over like IOKit and mach, mostly taking inspiration from L3. The drivers are custom, graphics custom, custom touch input, etc. They actively pay developer salaries at LLVM, cups, many other open and important nix projects. This comment seems misinformed and griping, there are plenty of ways to program on iOS. There's the developer program, TestPilot, and more.
robertoandred 5y ago
Kids have Swift Playgrounds on iPad. It's specifically for learning programming.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Swift Playgrounds can only exist because Apple has specifically designated permissions for themselves to run Swift code, and other developers are not allowed to have access to these permissions.

dapids 5y ago

Millions of people build and create things on Mac computers, they have the XCode IDE and multiple natively supported languages, swift, objc, C++, C, Python, JavaScript, it's all built-in. Am I missing something?

Steltek 5y ago
The topic was iOS devices, not macOS.
smoldesu 5y ago
I mean, XCode is not only proprietary, but it's also horribly designed. Installing it is a nightmare that will use more than half of your Macs storage, and updating it takes longer than updating your own OS. What the original commentor is complaining about is how Apple stood on the shoulders of giants without giving back, only to turn around and wow the world with a product that is only 20-30% theirs. It's been a practice for as long as capitalism has existed, but for a company that operates on such blatantly wide profit margins and runs a socially conscious ad campaign, it seems a little stupid to at least not pay homage to the people who helped make your product. It's a bit of tragic irony that you can't even use the tools that Apple used to make MacOS on a Mac.
arvinsim 5y ago
I am pretty sure that the poster was referring to phones, not laptops, when he posted about computers that can fit in the pocket.
dapids 5y ago
Ah sorry missed the part about mobile. But in any case, this isn't true, there has been playground for quite a long time on iOS. The portions of BSD which XNU uses is quite small, and is quite a mismatch of things from all over like IOKit and mach, mostly taking inspiration from L3. The drivers are custom, graphics custom, custom touch input, etc. They actively pay developer salaries at LLVM, cups, many other open and important nix projects. This comment seems misinformed and griping, there are plenty of ways to program on iOS. There's the developer program, TestPilot, and more.

robertoandred 5y ago

Kids have Swift Playgrounds on iPad. It's specifically for learning programming.

smoldesu 5y ago
Swift Playgrounds can only exist because Apple has specifically designated permissions for themselves to run Swift code, and other developers are not allowed to have access to these permissions.