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I don't think anybody is questioning the value of good, fresh ideas, but what the article outlines is a real problem. The "armchair quarterback" non-technical t

by qsort 5y ago

I don't think anybody is questioning the value of good, fresh ideas, but what the article outlines is a real problem. The "armchair quarterback" non-technical type is especially annoying because it creates a bad feedback loop: - Idea guy says we should make a water-powered ferrari that costs $100. - Technicians shut it down as impossible. - Idea guy complains that technicians are short-sighted and shut down all of their ideas. - Goto step 1. I'm myself somewhat of a daydreamy type, but we have to understand that unless there's a specific, detailed plan, ideas really are a dime a dozen.

virgilp 5y ago
It's always fun to take an "impossible" ask and figure out a way to make it possible. In your case, this one is far closer to possibility that you might've realized - take a H2GO [+], make it ~20% cheaper and slap a ferrari logo on it, and you're good. I'm not even trolling - sometimes playing with the 'impossible' demand yields useful results. You were just trying to create an artificially-impossible demand, so in this case it's not useful - but if it's a real customer "impossible" demand, trying to make it possible by rethinking the constraints can be actually valuable. [+] https://www.amazon.com/Hydrogen-Powered-Radio-Control-Standard/dp/B001KYKN16 https://www.amazon.com/Hydrogen-Powered-Radio-Control-Standa...
- qsort 5y ago
  I agree that what you are saying is useful, i.e. identify the minimal sets of contradicting constraints, but if you can relax a constraint, then you are effectively solving a different problem. OTOH it's pretty well known that customers mostly don't know what they want, so deciding what is actually a constraint and what isn't is, paradoxically, a part of the job.
convolvatron 5y ago
the point to me here is that the really valuable ideas aren't just some thing that someone has in the absence of context. given the situation on the ground - this approach will nicely balance all the constraints. this idea explicitly recasts an existing machine into one which is simpler and more general. you dont have these ideas unless you are intimately familiar with the territory. and if you aren't, its very likely that any suggestions you might have wont be relevant because of its features.
rrauenza 5y ago
Can you draw 7 perpendicular red lines? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
ThalesX 5y ago
I was the tehnician type for a very long time, until I realized it was keeping me back. Now, whenever I encounter an idea guy, I just ask 'how' and 'what' (never 'why!') until I understand what they actually want, and the idea usually turns out to be a lot tamer than how it initially comes across. Even in these situations, there will be the idea guys that really don't even have an answer to the first how, or what. The advantage is that you don't have to be the nasty technician telling them it's impossible, and turns the problem around to them being unable to formulate their ideas, usually due to not exploring it in depth.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  Why not "why"? Having an understanding of his or her motivations, while possibly not serving the purpose of knowing whether an idea is feasible, may help in formulating your own methods to solve the problem.
  - ThalesX 5y ago
    I guess it’s a matter of life experience. I couldn’t point to a research paper on it more than Chris Voss’ work on negotiation. I find “why?” is more aggressive and makes people talk more about the generalities of the idea, whereas with “how” and “what” I feel like I can get the why without asking it directly, and closer to the truth.

by qsort 5y ago

virgilp 5y ago

It's always fun to take an "impossible" ask and figure out a way to make it possible. In your case, this one is far closer to possibility that you might've realized - take a H2GO [+], make it ~20% cheaper and slap a ferrari logo on it, and you're good. I'm not even trolling - sometimes playing with the 'impossible' demand yields useful results. You were just trying to create an artificially-impossible demand, so in this case it's not useful - but if it's a real customer "impossible" demand, trying to make it possible by rethinking the constraints can be actually valuable. [+] https://www.amazon.com/Hydrogen-Powered-Radio-Control-Standard/dp/B001KYKN16 https://www.amazon.com/Hydrogen-Powered-Radio-Control-Standa...

qsort 5y ago
I agree that what you are saying is useful, i.e. identify the minimal sets of contradicting constraints, but if you can relax a constraint, then you are effectively solving a different problem. OTOH it's pretty well known that customers mostly don't know what they want, so deciding what is actually a constraint and what isn't is, paradoxically, a part of the job.

convolvatron 5y ago

the point to me here is that the really valuable ideas aren't just some thing that someone has in the absence of context. given the situation on the ground - this approach will nicely balance all the constraints. this idea explicitly recasts an existing machine into one which is simpler and more general. you dont have these ideas unless you are intimately familiar with the territory. and if you aren't, its very likely that any suggestions you might have wont be relevant because of its features.

rrauenza 5y ago

Can you draw 7 perpendicular red lines? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg

ThalesX 5y ago

I was the tehnician type for a very long time, until I realized it was keeping me back. Now, whenever I encounter an idea guy, I just ask 'how' and 'what' (never 'why!') until I understand what they actually want, and the idea usually turns out to be a lot tamer than how it initially comes across. Even in these situations, there will be the idea guys that really don't even have an answer to the first how, or what. The advantage is that you don't have to be the nasty technician telling them it's impossible, and turns the problem around to them being unable to formulate their ideas, usually due to not exploring it in depth.

Dracophoenix 5y ago
Why not "why"? Having an understanding of his or her motivations, while possibly not serving the purpose of knowing whether an idea is feasible, may help in formulating your own methods to solve the problem.
- ThalesX 5y ago
  I guess it’s a matter of life experience. I couldn’t point to a research paper on it more than Chris Voss’ work on negotiation. I find “why?” is more aggressive and makes people talk more about the generalities of the idea, whereas with “how” and “what” I feel like I can get the why without asking it directly, and closer to the truth.