3 ms·

> as soon as the algorithm begins to get what kind of content you like I have to assume this style of algo-generated feeds wouldn't apply for an actual hiring

> as soon as the algorithm begins to get what kind of content you like I have to assume this style of algo-generated feeds wouldn't apply for an actual hiring platform, because otherwise this is ripe for "inadvertent" discrimination.

masklinn 5y ago
Seems like the point? Add a bit of bias laund^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmachine learning and you're good to go! It's not your fault if "the algorithm" is doing the discrimination, after all. I'm not sure how it could fly in the US where putting a picture on your résumé is more or less illegal. Certainly would help the state plonk you down when your social score gets too low too.
- FalconSensei 5y ago
  > where putting a picture on your résumé is more or less illegal How does it work for models and actors?
  - pbronez 5y ago
    That’s actually a really interesting question. Models and actors usually explicitly include a headshot. I’ve never heard that putting a picture on a resume was a legal problem for an applicant. Employers have a the burden of running a fair hiring process. Some firms even remove race and gender signifiers from resumes before the initial hiring manager screen. It was a big deal when they stopped making hotness a requirement for airline stewards, and for most jobs it’s totally illegal to require a particular ethnicity, but for performing arts they explicitly hire people for physical appearance. What’s the difference, legally? A few possibilities: - performing arts (film, stage) are artistic expression, and thus protected by the first amendment. (But then why is the physical appearance of an airline steward not free speech of a brand’s image?) - appearance is “inherent” to acting (but I’m sure people have argued that whiteness is inherent to staffing all kinds of things, and that’s not tolerated) - actors are rarely employees, but instead sign independent contracts with short lived, project specific LLCs. Thus “casting” is not “recruiting” and actors don’t have traditional employment protections. (Most film jobs work this way though - is it permissible to apply appearance standards to the Key Grip?)
Mehdi2277 5y ago
Even if we had a demographically ‘fair’ recommender, a normal recommender is super top heavy. Telling 1000 companies person x is great is not very useful to them or the rest of candidates. I would expect this system to need some heavy limiting of amount of companies a candidate sees for it to be useful. Very different than typical recommendation where a great video can be thousands or millions of views.
- nrmitchi 5y ago
  Ya, a perfect recommender for the "best" candidate on some qualitative set of metrics would not be discriminatory (unless the underlying metrics were). It definitely wouldn't be useful. Hiring isn't a popularity problem as much as a matching problem.
- mrtksn 5y ago
  > Telling 1000 companies person x is great That’s the beauty of TikTok. the rich don’t necessarily get richer. You will often be presented with fresh people, AFAIK they spread out new content to measure response. It’s not really the type of platform that everyone watches the same most popular people. It’s refreshing that doesn’t push for “more from the same” .
  - Mehdi2277 5y ago
    I used to work at tiktok on recommendation. While we definitely do better exploration than some places there’s still a very clear top heavy bias. Part of that is just content quality. A lot of content is worse than others for any form of media. But while we are better at showing small things than say youtube, there remain very clear tiktok stars. Even for smaller areas you will still have some creators lead in that area.
    - mrtksn 5y ago
      I get quite a bit fresh content in the sense that it’s fresh for me(but popular otherwise) or fresh content that has a very few views and likes. In contrast, twitter is horrible because I’m in a bubble and everyone I’m exposed to is there to push their agenda. Instagram is fine but it’s essentially place where people I know and I don’t know pretend to be living the good life. It’s boring. The content discovery never worked for me. Youtube is actually great in terms of content but the discovery revolves around the “more from the same” which makes discovery of something fresh pretty hard. TikTok is not perfect but it’s the only platform that actually seems to create a stream of stuff that I like and are not the same. So , congrats.

masklinn 5y ago

Seems like the point? Add a bit of bias laund^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmachine learning and you're good to go! It's not your fault if "the algorithm" is doing the discrimination, after all. I'm not sure how it could fly in the US where putting a picture on your résumé is more or less illegal. Certainly would help the state plonk you down when your social score gets too low too.

FalconSensei 5y ago
> where putting a picture on your résumé is more or less illegal How does it work for models and actors?
- pbronez 5y ago
  That’s actually a really interesting question. Models and actors usually explicitly include a headshot. I’ve never heard that putting a picture on a resume was a legal problem for an applicant. Employers have a the burden of running a fair hiring process. Some firms even remove race and gender signifiers from resumes before the initial hiring manager screen. It was a big deal when they stopped making hotness a requirement for airline stewards, and for most jobs it’s totally illegal to require a particular ethnicity, but for performing arts they explicitly hire people for physical appearance. What’s the difference, legally? A few possibilities: - performing arts (film, stage) are artistic expression, and thus protected by the first amendment. (But then why is the physical appearance of an airline steward not free speech of a brand’s image?) - appearance is “inherent” to acting (but I’m sure people have argued that whiteness is inherent to staffing all kinds of things, and that’s not tolerated) - actors are rarely employees, but instead sign independent contracts with short lived, project specific LLCs. Thus “casting” is not “recruiting” and actors don’t have traditional employment protections. (Most film jobs work this way though - is it permissible to apply appearance standards to the Key Grip?)

Mehdi2277 5y ago

Even if we had a demographically ‘fair’ recommender, a normal recommender is super top heavy. Telling 1000 companies person x is great is not very useful to them or the rest of candidates. I would expect this system to need some heavy limiting of amount of companies a candidate sees for it to be useful. Very different than typical recommendation where a great video can be thousands or millions of views.

nrmitchi 5y ago
Ya, a perfect recommender for the "best" candidate on some qualitative set of metrics would not be discriminatory (unless the underlying metrics were). It definitely wouldn't be useful. Hiring isn't a popularity problem as much as a matching problem.
mrtksn 5y ago
> Telling 1000 companies person x is great That’s the beauty of TikTok. the rich don’t necessarily get richer. You will often be presented with fresh people, AFAIK they spread out new content to measure response. It’s not really the type of platform that everyone watches the same most popular people. It’s refreshing that doesn’t push for “more from the same” .
- Mehdi2277 5y ago
  I used to work at tiktok on recommendation. While we definitely do better exploration than some places there’s still a very clear top heavy bias. Part of that is just content quality. A lot of content is worse than others for any form of media. But while we are better at showing small things than say youtube, there remain very clear tiktok stars. Even for smaller areas you will still have some creators lead in that area.
  - mrtksn 5y ago
    I get quite a bit fresh content in the sense that it’s fresh for me(but popular otherwise) or fresh content that has a very few views and likes. In contrast, twitter is horrible because I’m in a bubble and everyone I’m exposed to is there to push their agenda. Instagram is fine but it’s essentially place where people I know and I don’t know pretend to be living the good life. It’s boring. The content discovery never worked for me. Youtube is actually great in terms of content but the discovery revolves around the “more from the same” which makes discovery of something fresh pretty hard. TikTok is not perfect but it’s the only platform that actually seems to create a stream of stuff that I like and are not the same. So , congrats.