4 ms·

Is "harmful" the best word here? I feel like inaccessible much better describes the issue at hand.

cyril_st_john 6y ago
Interesting concern for HN commenters to have given the number of "X Considered Harmful" articles that make it to the front page here.
kevingadd 6y ago
I think in this case the changes are making an existing situation worse, so by changing it Discord's design team is inflicting harm. The product itself is not harmful, just inaccessible, but describing the changes as harmful seems right. I have to use Discord every day for work, so if this redesign was interfering with that I'd be pissed. (I pay for a third-party Discord client for this and other reasons)
- dahfizz 6y ago
  harm /härm/ noun : physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted. Nobody is inflicting any harm by choosing a bad color palette.
  - kevingadd 6y ago
    The word "harm" means many things. Just google "consumer harm", for example, and the top result is a government agency using the word harm to describe non-physical injury: https://www.fdic.gov/resources/supervision-and-examinations/consumer-compliance-examination-manual/documents/2/ii-2-1.pdf https://www.fdic.gov/resources/supervision-and-examinations/...
  - tobr 6y ago
    You’re conveniently skipping over the secondary definitions, which includes “actual or potential ill effect or danger”.
  - mking1024 6y ago
    You're being a bit disingenuous here. Other definitions of harm include: "have an adverse effect on" and "actual or potential ill effects".
shlant 6y ago
yea I was a bit taken back by multiple uses of "harmful" and then "catastrophic"
- kevingadd 6y ago
  If Discord suddenly stopped working for me, while it wouldn't be catastrophic it would be quite bad. I use it as my main channel of communication with many contacts, and I use it for work. I have secondary contact channels for plenty of people (twitter, email, etc), but not all. I can imagine a person having more of their life exist on Discord and if it suddenly became unusable for them due to these changes, it would be a catastrophe. Some people literally can't pay rent without Discord, since they use it to prepare content for work or to collaborate with their team.
  - andrewzah 6y ago
    That’s their fault, not discord’s. Apps existed before discord, and will exist after.
  - shlant 6y ago
    I don't want to diminish any significant impact it may have on its users, just remarking on the language feeling a bit intense. Hopefully they take the complaints seriously.
wrren 6y ago
Harm now means 'negative to any extent'.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
  This is not an example of the definition of a word changing. https://www.etymonline.com/word/harm https://www.etymonline.com/word/harm
tux3 6y ago
A second poster replies that elements are slightly harder to read. I don't have terribly good eyes, but I'm happy to say I don't feel like I've suffured permanent eye damage from the discord UI :] When OP says incredibly harmful and catastrophic I think they're just describing their feelings and how important it is to them.
losvedir 6y ago
Yeah, I was wondering that, too. UX can cause harm, for example, certain kinds of contrast and lights for folks with epilepsy, but I'm not sure that the complaint here rises to that level. If you can't use something, you could argue that it causes "harm" to your well being or job prospects or something. But I agree that "harmful" should probably stick to more significant, mostly physical effects. But, of course, here we are on HN discussing it, so it had its desired effect...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

Interesting concern for HN commenters to have given the number of "X Considered Harmful" articles that make it to the front page here.

kevingadd 6y ago

I think in this case the changes are making an existing situation worse, so by changing it Discord's design team is inflicting harm. The product itself is not harmful, just inaccessible, but describing the changes as harmful seems right. I have to use Discord every day for work, so if this redesign was interfering with that I'd be pissed. (I pay for a third-party Discord client for this and other reasons)

dahfizz 6y ago
harm /härm/ noun : physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted. Nobody is inflicting any harm by choosing a bad color palette.
- kevingadd 6y ago
  The word "harm" means many things. Just google "consumer harm", for example, and the top result is a government agency using the word harm to describe non-physical injury: https://www.fdic.gov/resources/supervision-and-examinations/consumer-compliance-examination-manual/documents/2/ii-2-1.pdf https://www.fdic.gov/resources/supervision-and-examinations/...
- tobr 6y ago
  You’re conveniently skipping over the secondary definitions, which includes “actual or potential ill effect or danger”.
- mking1024 6y ago
  You're being a bit disingenuous here. Other definitions of harm include: "have an adverse effect on" and "actual or potential ill effects".

shlant 6y ago

yea I was a bit taken back by multiple uses of "harmful" and then "catastrophic"

kevingadd 6y ago
If Discord suddenly stopped working for me, while it wouldn't be catastrophic it would be quite bad. I use it as my main channel of communication with many contacts, and I use it for work. I have secondary contact channels for plenty of people (twitter, email, etc), but not all. I can imagine a person having more of their life exist on Discord and if it suddenly became unusable for them due to these changes, it would be a catastrophe. Some people literally can't pay rent without Discord, since they use it to prepare content for work or to collaborate with their team.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  That’s their fault, not discord’s. Apps existed before discord, and will exist after.
- shlant 6y ago
  I don't want to diminish any significant impact it may have on its users, just remarking on the language feeling a bit intense. Hopefully they take the complaints seriously.

wrren 6y ago

Harm now means 'negative to any extent'.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 6y ago
This is not an example of the definition of a word changing. https://www.etymonline.com/word/harm https://www.etymonline.com/word/harm

tux3 6y ago

A second poster replies that elements are slightly harder to read. I don't have terribly good eyes, but I'm happy to say I don't feel like I've suffured permanent eye damage from the discord UI :] When OP says incredibly harmful and catastrophic I think they're just describing their feelings and how important it is to them.

losvedir 6y ago

Yeah, I was wondering that, too. UX can cause harm, for example, certain kinds of contrast and lights for folks with epilepsy, but I'm not sure that the complaint here rises to that level. If you can't use something, you could argue that it causes "harm" to your well being or job prospects or something. But I agree that "harmful" should probably stick to more significant, mostly physical effects. But, of course, here we are on HN discussing it, so it had its desired effect...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]