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If the people who are working on these projects are talented and can command high salaries, $11k/mo is realistic. It's already a large pay cut. > My expectatio

If the people who are working on these projects are talented and can command high salaries, $11k/mo is realistic. It's already a large pay cut. > My expectation would be that there is a ton of people willing to work for much less, so why Babel had to go with that person? Are all those people capable of managing Babel? I think the real question is: do you need top talent for important open source projects, or are average developers fine?

capableweb 5y ago
You somehow seem to think that amount someone earns is somehow related to how good they are. > $11k/mo is realistic. It's already a large pay cut. Yes, sure, in Silicon Valley anything is possible but for the 99% rest of the world, 11K USD per month is ridiculously high and even people with decades of experience won't collect that unless there is a specific situation. It's definitely not normal outside of Silicon Valley companies. > Are all those people capable of managing Babel? Yes, I know of at least 10 JS developers with decades of experience who could handle maintaining Babel if it was up to them, and they don't earn close to 11K USD per month today. I'm sure they'd be happy to work on Open Source and effectively earning more, but many be happy just working on Open Source full time.
- ZephyrBlu 5y ago
  I think there is a correlation between income and skill. More specifically, I think it's likely that highly skilled people have higher than average incomes. > It's definitely not normal outside of Silicon Valley companies How many companies do you class as SV companies? It seems like in the US in general there are salaries at that level and higher, not just SV. I have also seen people talk about salaries in Europe at that level, though I suspect they are rarer than in the US.
- danielsju6 5y ago
  You realize that $11k has to pay their taxes, healthcare, and retirement state-side right? It’s peanuts.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    I think it's somewhere in between. Taxes, healthcare, and retirement are big in the US. And keep in mind that self-employment taxes (operative here) are more than the taxes taken out as an employee. But $11K/month * 12 == $132K. To roughy back-of-napkin equalize for higher self-employment taxes, let's say that's equivalent to $100K salary if you were an ordinary employee. (I just made that up, I don't know how accurate it is). $100K is still 84th percentile income for US, you are making more than 84% of people in the US. It's not "peanuts" or "subsistence". ($132K is 91st percentile income).
    - danielsju6 5y ago
      Back of the napkin to me: say $25.5k pre-tax retirement / college savings for child, 30% federal, 15% state, $3200/mn to rent an apartment in a mid sized city in the US, $400 month for car and gas, $1k for food, $1k for healthcare, $160 for utilities, leaves them with $288/mn. Not enough to ever own a home, build wealth, travel; better hope they have a spouse that is employed & has employer subsidized healthcare.
      - jrochkind1 5y ago
        And yet, regardless, it's still more than 85% of incomes in the USA. That seems striking. Is 85% of the USA living on subsistence peanuts, not even enough to survive? Possibly.
        danielsju6 5y ago
        Not saving for retirement and one surprise bill from insolvency is the status quo. AMERICA!!!!
  - bspammer 5y ago
    The median salary in the US is a quarter of that. It’s not luxury yacht money, but calling it “peanuts” is ridiculous.
    - 5y ago
- theobr 5y ago
  Mind introducing me to some of these people? My company is actively hiring experienced JS devs and I’ve yet to find any senior enough to maintain Babel for under $200k
  - capableweb 5y ago
    Sure thing, what the company does exactly? Just so I don't waste their time with stuff I know they are not interested in. An active tips in order to get to know these people in the future: attend developer events and mingle with people, build rapport and a network. If you're moderately social and generally a good person, you'll find yourself in their circles in no time.

capableweb 5y ago

You somehow seem to think that amount someone earns is somehow related to how good they are. > $11k/mo is realistic. It's already a large pay cut. Yes, sure, in Silicon Valley anything is possible but for the 99% rest of the world, 11K USD per month is ridiculously high and even people with decades of experience won't collect that unless there is a specific situation. It's definitely not normal outside of Silicon Valley companies. > Are all those people capable of managing Babel? Yes, I know of at least 10 JS developers with decades of experience who could handle maintaining Babel if it was up to them, and they don't earn close to 11K USD per month today. I'm sure they'd be happy to work on Open Source and effectively earning more, but many be happy just working on Open Source full time.

ZephyrBlu 5y ago
I think there is a correlation between income and skill. More specifically, I think it's likely that highly skilled people have higher than average incomes. > It's definitely not normal outside of Silicon Valley companies How many companies do you class as SV companies? It seems like in the US in general there are salaries at that level and higher, not just SV. I have also seen people talk about salaries in Europe at that level, though I suspect they are rarer than in the US.
danielsju6 5y ago
You realize that $11k has to pay their taxes, healthcare, and retirement state-side right? It’s peanuts.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  I think it's somewhere in between. Taxes, healthcare, and retirement are big in the US. And keep in mind that self-employment taxes (operative here) are more than the taxes taken out as an employee. But $11K/month * 12 == $132K. To roughy back-of-napkin equalize for higher self-employment taxes, let's say that's equivalent to $100K salary if you were an ordinary employee. (I just made that up, I don't know how accurate it is). $100K is still 84th percentile income for US, you are making more than 84% of people in the US. It's not "peanuts" or "subsistence". ($132K is 91st percentile income).
  - danielsju6 5y ago
    Back of the napkin to me: say $25.5k pre-tax retirement / college savings for child, 30% federal, 15% state, $3200/mn to rent an apartment in a mid sized city in the US, $400 month for car and gas, $1k for food, $1k for healthcare, $160 for utilities, leaves them with $288/mn. Not enough to ever own a home, build wealth, travel; better hope they have a spouse that is employed & has employer subsidized healthcare.
    - jrochkind1 5y ago
      And yet, regardless, it's still more than 85% of incomes in the USA. That seems striking. Is 85% of the USA living on subsistence peanuts, not even enough to survive? Possibly.
      - danielsju6 5y ago
        Not saving for retirement and one surprise bill from insolvency is the status quo. AMERICA!!!!
- bspammer 5y ago
  The median salary in the US is a quarter of that. It’s not luxury yacht money, but calling it “peanuts” is ridiculous.
  - 5y ago
theobr 5y ago
Mind introducing me to some of these people? My company is actively hiring experienced JS devs and I’ve yet to find any senior enough to maintain Babel for under $200k
- capableweb 5y ago
  Sure thing, what the company does exactly? Just so I don't waste their time with stuff I know they are not interested in. An active tips in order to get to know these people in the future: attend developer events and mingle with people, build rapport and a network. If you're moderately social and generally a good person, you'll find yourself in their circles in no time.