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> Family and friends don't give performance reviews and push other such metrics down your throat Oh, but society sure is hard at work moving towards this. Edi

> Family and friends don't give performance reviews and push other such metrics down your throat Oh, but society sure is hard at work moving towards this. Edit: I'm short of time, but as someone asked me to elaborate, I'll briefly give a few examples: - "Networking" replacing genuine friendships; related things such as "cut out friends who don't let you grow" which may be valid but usually translates to "replace them with someone who will lead you to material success" (that is, "networking") - Parents micromanaging their children's lives, measuring their performance on various tasks and rewarding/punishing them accordingly, often without regard to possible underlying issues (e.g. mental illness) - Parents making children pay rent after they turn 18 - "Tinderification" of relationships, followers as social currency, etc. My point is basically that family and friends are being replaced by the individual and advertising oneself.

chasd00 5y ago
> Parents making children pay rent after they turn 18 i have two boys, if they're >= 18 and doing nothing but laying on the couch i don't see asking for rent being unreasonable at all! Coddling young adults as if they're still children does so harm to everyone.
- throwamon 5y ago
  Whether or not you're right, you just reinforced my point of there being some (maybe semi-conscious) scorekeeping happening, and the point on there maybe being some underlying issue (psychological or even social - we know young adults living with their parents is becoming a trend and I'm sure in many cases there's much more to it than simply "being coddled as if they're still children").
  - TeMPOraL 5y ago
    It's not score keeping. It's recognition that we don't live in a post-scarcity society, and our needs don't satisfy themselves. Labor and money are still required to keep quality of life in a household at a stable level. I don't think turning 18 is the common boundary line here. Entering the workforce is. If you're making money while still consuming your parents' household resources, it's only reasonable to contribute something back. FWIW, I'd hope most people who generate income while living with their parents would recognize this as obvious, and volunteer to pay rent.
kumarvvr 5y ago
Nah. I think humans still have humanity in them and are extremely tolerant of family and friends. Society places a lot of value and gives a lot of respect to those who help others get their second chances.
jstummbillig 5y ago
Care to elaborate?
AussieWog93 5y ago
I think middle class society in the West has already reached this stage. I was talking about this the other day with my wife, after stewing about it bitterly for hours into the night. The most common form of interpersonal interaction has changed from genuine offers of assistance to displays of status and evaluations of said displays. It's unthinkable to do something as basic as ask your neighbour to "borrow" an egg or bring them some cake just because you have too much. On the other hand, you can sure as hell expect them to let you know that what you own isn't good enough. The obvious conclusion to this shift, which is already playing out, is that people minimise the amount of interaction with others and we all become lonelier.
- chasd00 5y ago
  some people are jerks. period. If you were stewing on this for a couple hours then you probably had a bad experience earlier in the day with someone. Not everyone is like that, in fact, jerks are sort of rare but they do exist.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    >If you were stewing on this for a couple hours then you probably had a bad experience earlier in the day with someone You've hit the nail on the head there, but what made me so angry about it wasn't that it was an out-of-the-ordinary experience but the norm.
- kenjackson 5y ago
  > It's unthinkable to do something as basic as ask your neighbour to "borrow" an egg or bring them some cake just because you have too much. Really? This is a common occurrence in my neighborhood. Like it happens almost weekly. Is this really unthinkable in other areas? If so, we probably shouldn’t move.
- ReactiveJelly 5y ago
  > The most common form of interpersonal interaction has changed from genuine offers of assistance to displays of status and evaluations of said displays. I don't actually mind the lack of cake. There's never going to be "too much cake", even if the communists got what they think they want. I'm not much of a gift-giving person, so if a neighbor brought me cake, I'd feel like I owe them something in return, which is a weird feeling I don't want. And I don't feel any status pressure, because I never even talk to my neighbors. My lawn looks like shit, my neighbors probably know, who cares. No, it seems to me the principal component is online vs. offline. The most common form of interpersonal interaction for me, even before 2020, is talking to people online, on Reddit, Discord, or Hacker News. Most of my neighbors are not people who I really want to be friends with. They're mostly older than me, mostly parents, probably with no shared hobbies or interests. But that's probably not even the result of "modernity" or "The Whest", it's probably because I'm a programmer with no kids who moved into a suburb where people assume you'll eventually have kids. So the upshot is, I have to drive a long ways if I want to see a friend in-person. Which puts a chilling effect on making friends at all. I often miss the college dormitories. Everyone is within a few years of age, nobody had children, many people had the same major or similar majors, and everyone was packed in close with no need to drive. But you can't treat a studio apartment as a real estate investment, so Real Adults don't want to live in a place like that. > The obvious conclusion to this shift, which is already playing out, is that people minimise the amount of interaction with others and we all become lonelier. Yeah, I don't like it either. But part of me thinks, it's also just becoming obvious how many people are not worth talking to.
srfwx 5y ago
So more like "Family is a workplace" now that the other way around

chasd00 5y ago

> Parents making children pay rent after they turn 18 i have two boys, if they're >= 18 and doing nothing but laying on the couch i don't see asking for rent being unreasonable at all! Coddling young adults as if they're still children does so harm to everyone.

throwamon 5y ago
Whether or not you're right, you just reinforced my point of there being some (maybe semi-conscious) scorekeeping happening, and the point on there maybe being some underlying issue (psychological or even social - we know young adults living with their parents is becoming a trend and I'm sure in many cases there's much more to it than simply "being coddled as if they're still children").
- TeMPOraL 5y ago
  It's not score keeping. It's recognition that we don't live in a post-scarcity society, and our needs don't satisfy themselves. Labor and money are still required to keep quality of life in a household at a stable level. I don't think turning 18 is the common boundary line here. Entering the workforce is. If you're making money while still consuming your parents' household resources, it's only reasonable to contribute something back. FWIW, I'd hope most people who generate income while living with their parents would recognize this as obvious, and volunteer to pay rent.

kumarvvr 5y ago

Nah. I think humans still have humanity in them and are extremely tolerant of family and friends. Society places a lot of value and gives a lot of respect to those who help others get their second chances.

jstummbillig 5y ago

Care to elaborate?

AussieWog93 5y ago

I think middle class society in the West has already reached this stage. I was talking about this the other day with my wife, after stewing about it bitterly for hours into the night. The most common form of interpersonal interaction has changed from genuine offers of assistance to displays of status and evaluations of said displays. It's unthinkable to do something as basic as ask your neighbour to "borrow" an egg or bring them some cake just because you have too much. On the other hand, you can sure as hell expect them to let you know that what you own isn't good enough. The obvious conclusion to this shift, which is already playing out, is that people minimise the amount of interaction with others and we all become lonelier.

chasd00 5y ago
some people are jerks. period. If you were stewing on this for a couple hours then you probably had a bad experience earlier in the day with someone. Not everyone is like that, in fact, jerks are sort of rare but they do exist.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >If you were stewing on this for a couple hours then you probably had a bad experience earlier in the day with someone You've hit the nail on the head there, but what made me so angry about it wasn't that it was an out-of-the-ordinary experience but the norm.
kenjackson 5y ago
> It's unthinkable to do something as basic as ask your neighbour to "borrow" an egg or bring them some cake just because you have too much. Really? This is a common occurrence in my neighborhood. Like it happens almost weekly. Is this really unthinkable in other areas? If so, we probably shouldn’t move.
ReactiveJelly 5y ago
> The most common form of interpersonal interaction has changed from genuine offers of assistance to displays of status and evaluations of said displays. I don't actually mind the lack of cake. There's never going to be "too much cake", even if the communists got what they think they want. I'm not much of a gift-giving person, so if a neighbor brought me cake, I'd feel like I owe them something in return, which is a weird feeling I don't want. And I don't feel any status pressure, because I never even talk to my neighbors. My lawn looks like shit, my neighbors probably know, who cares. No, it seems to me the principal component is online vs. offline. The most common form of interpersonal interaction for me, even before 2020, is talking to people online, on Reddit, Discord, or Hacker News. Most of my neighbors are not people who I really want to be friends with. They're mostly older than me, mostly parents, probably with no shared hobbies or interests. But that's probably not even the result of "modernity" or "The Whest", it's probably because I'm a programmer with no kids who moved into a suburb where people assume you'll eventually have kids. So the upshot is, I have to drive a long ways if I want to see a friend in-person. Which puts a chilling effect on making friends at all. I often miss the college dormitories. Everyone is within a few years of age, nobody had children, many people had the same major or similar majors, and everyone was packed in close with no need to drive. But you can't treat a studio apartment as a real estate investment, so Real Adults don't want to live in a place like that. > The obvious conclusion to this shift, which is already playing out, is that people minimise the amount of interaction with others and we all become lonelier. Yeah, I don't like it either. But part of me thinks, it's also just becoming obvious how many people are not worth talking to.

srfwx 5y ago

So more like "Family is a workplace" now that the other way around