4 ms·

I’m not sure a parallel can be drawn to the Find My network. That one is purely designed for location tracking in an anonymous way, and does not have the abilit

by jiofih 5y ago

I’m not sure a parallel can be drawn to the Find My network. That one is purely designed for location tracking in an anonymous way, and does not have the ability to transfer data between devices or any other type of tracking.

jonatanheyman 5y ago
Not yet, but it could have in a future generation, or even a future firmware update.
- jiofih 5y ago
  Not really. It’s basically a system to store encrypted coordinates from Bluetooth ids seen. There is no mesh networking capability. https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet... Anything of that sort would be a completely new, unrelated system.
  - angry_octet 5y ago
    AirTags come with UWB as well as Bluetooth. There's no real reason why they couldn't pass messages along. Firstly, AirTags that come within reach of one another. An Apple version of Nest could do the same, and would supercharge the FindMy network. Once these systems are accepted they often get upgraded without significant reconsideration.
spamalot159 5y ago
You're right but it is pushing their advantage from the phone sector onto another and forcing out their competition in Tile. That sounds to me like monopolistic activity.
- jiofih 5y ago
  Tile can have access to the Find My network, as can others. They chose not to.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    In fact literally anyone and anything can use the Find My network if they want. Apple can’t stop “rogue” devices from connecting to it without bricking AirTags. You can get a sense of the protocol here. https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack
  - ascagnel_ 5y ago
    Unless Find My supports Tile hardware being able to simultaneously connect to both Find My and Tile's own network by default, this access is a Sophie's choice for Tile: - If their hardware only connects to Find My, then the Tile network (and Android phones specifically) will have fewer connection points available, making the devices less attractive to Android users who will not have access to Find My. - If their hardware only connects to the Tile network, then their tracker hardware is less attractive to iOS users, who have the larger Find My network available. If Tile is able to ship hardware (or adapt their existing hardware) to connect to both networks by default, this sidesteps the issue entirely, since it'll work both with cross-platform hardware and take advantage of the first-party tracking network. And the ability to do so by default is hugely important here: putting something behind a toggle will effectively kill its adoption, and will have knock-on network effects.
    - jiofih 5y ago
      As far as I’m aware nothing stops them from doing just that. You’ve got the dynamics right, but the hardware is not the problem, it’s the app. They want iOS users to download the Tile app instead of using the native Find My. If they don’t, coverage will be severely degraded for Android users as you mention. The hardware is just a dumb emitter. Fixing this would require either: 1. The Find My api to be available on Android, so phones can track and locate tags 2. Find My on iOS uploads tag data to a third party service of the users’ choice The latter is absolutely unlikely as it exposes user data defeating all of the privacy guarantees Apple developed. #1 is more likely but still a long shot.
- notyourwork 5y ago
  At what point is a business making decisions for its own interest not a problem? We always criticism big companies for their market position. Where is the line drawn between big enough to be successful but not big enough to be unfair player using existing business to leapfrog into other areas? It seems we are quick to point a finger but its never qualified. We just think "x is big, x is doing y, x is being unfair."
  - Closi 5y ago
    It becomes unfair when domination in one market allows you to directly affect competitors in another different market.

by jiofih 5y ago

jonatanheyman 5y ago

Not yet, but it could have in a future generation, or even a future firmware update.

jiofih 5y ago
Not really. It’s basically a system to store encrypted coordinates from Bluetooth ids seen. There is no mesh networking capability. https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet... Anything of that sort would be a completely new, unrelated system.
- angry_octet 5y ago
  AirTags come with UWB as well as Bluetooth. There's no real reason why they couldn't pass messages along. Firstly, AirTags that come within reach of one another. An Apple version of Nest could do the same, and would supercharge the FindMy network. Once these systems are accepted they often get upgraded without significant reconsideration.

spamalot159 5y ago

You're right but it is pushing their advantage from the phone sector onto another and forcing out their competition in Tile. That sounds to me like monopolistic activity.

jiofih 5y ago
Tile can have access to the Find My network, as can others. They chose not to.
- Spivak 5y ago
  In fact literally anyone and anything can use the Find My network if they want. Apple can’t stop “rogue” devices from connecting to it without bricking AirTags. You can get a sense of the protocol here. https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack https://github.com/seemoo-lab/openhaystack
- ascagnel_ 5y ago
  Unless Find My supports Tile hardware being able to simultaneously connect to both Find My and Tile's own network by default, this access is a Sophie's choice for Tile: - If their hardware only connects to Find My, then the Tile network (and Android phones specifically) will have fewer connection points available, making the devices less attractive to Android users who will not have access to Find My. - If their hardware only connects to the Tile network, then their tracker hardware is less attractive to iOS users, who have the larger Find My network available. If Tile is able to ship hardware (or adapt their existing hardware) to connect to both networks by default, this sidesteps the issue entirely, since it'll work both with cross-platform hardware and take advantage of the first-party tracking network. And the ability to do so by default is hugely important here: putting something behind a toggle will effectively kill its adoption, and will have knock-on network effects.
  - jiofih 5y ago
    As far as I’m aware nothing stops them from doing just that. You’ve got the dynamics right, but the hardware is not the problem, it’s the app. They want iOS users to download the Tile app instead of using the native Find My. If they don’t, coverage will be severely degraded for Android users as you mention. The hardware is just a dumb emitter. Fixing this would require either: 1. The Find My api to be available on Android, so phones can track and locate tags 2. Find My on iOS uploads tag data to a third party service of the users’ choice The latter is absolutely unlikely as it exposes user data defeating all of the privacy guarantees Apple developed. #1 is more likely but still a long shot.
notyourwork 5y ago
At what point is a business making decisions for its own interest not a problem? We always criticism big companies for their market position. Where is the line drawn between big enough to be successful but not big enough to be unfair player using existing business to leapfrog into other areas? It seems we are quick to point a finger but its never qualified. We just think "x is big, x is doing y, x is being unfair."
- Closi 5y ago
  It becomes unfair when domination in one market allows you to directly affect competitors in another different market.