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It’s a real shame that the otherwise very capable iPad cannot sustain an enormous subcategory of professional grade software, solely because of Apple’s policies

It’s a real shame that the otherwise very capable iPad cannot sustain an enormous subcategory of professional grade software, solely because of Apple’s policies. People know this going in of course, but it doesn’t make it any less of a shame, especially now you can spec out an iPad Pro with the exact same specs as the laptop I use for work.

Siira 5y ago
It’s not like there is much of an alternative. Android isn’t that much better, and its hardware offerings suck. Apple has an effective monopoly on quality tablet hardware, as far as I know. (I don’t understand why, but then again, I don’t understand how there can be years-long shortages of PS5 either. Why don’t they just increase the fucking price? ...)
- justinclift 5y ago
  Possibly interestingly, I just bought a 2nd hand MS Surface Pro 3 tablet for about US$300 (8GB RAM, i5 Cpu, 256GB SSD). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Pro_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Pro_3 Specifically because I'm looking for something to run Blender (blender.org) on. The iPad Pro could only run it via Sidecar from a real Mac (eg tethered laptop or similar). Android has an ancient version (circa ~2013), which isn't a real option. Could have spent money on a new Surface Pro, but trying things out on an older model seems to be working so far. :) From my point of view, there are more options than just iOS and Android for tablets. Apparently Linux can be installed on Surface Pro's too, though that's a future "maybe" item for this one.
- tomp 5y ago
  Microsoft Surface Go is a technological marvel. Full-blown x86 computer in tablet form. I’ve used it for the past year as my only machine (I’m a fulltime + hobby software developer). It’s 100% on par with Apple hardware (including the foldable keyboard & trackpad, and the lack of RAM). Software is a different issue, but for development work it mostly doesn’t matter that much (I use IntellJ, conda, Jupyter & Chrome, and all of those are completely cross platform). I haven’t tried Surface Pro but I imagine it’s equally good, just bigger.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    +1 for the Surface line. Apple can eat their heart out honestly, Ubuntu plus Surface is a pretty killer combo.
- justinclift 5y ago
  In addition to the MS Surface tablets, Lenovo makes a 2-in-1 laptop with detachable keyboard that can be used as a tablet, and apparently is pretty good at it. eg: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/X12-Detachable-G1/p/22TPX12X2D1 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/X12... Depending on what you're after, a modern 2-in-1 laptop like the Lenovo Yoga (they have a range), HP Elitebook x360, or similar might work well too: https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-series/c/yoga-2-in-1-series https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-series... https://store.hp.com/au-en/default/business-laptops-elitebook-x360 https://store.hp.com/au-en/default/business-laptops-eliteboo...
imglorp 5y ago
> you can spec out an iPad Pro with the exact same specs There's the root of the policy decision. If one device did everything, why would you buy two? Apple needs you to buy the lap AND the tablet AND the phone and maybe also the watch. Oh and they would also prefer you buy more every year, none of this decade stuff.
- kmeisthax 5y ago
  Apple has specifically said that they don't hold features back from iPads for the sake of making you buy a Mac. And given their pricing model I'd believe it. If you buy an M1 MacBook Air, you spend $1000 and you get pretty much an amazing laptop that does everything except flip over and let you draw on the screen. If you buy an iPad Pro - the new one with the M1 chip - then you have to spend $1100 to get the 13" model, which has less storage than the MacBook. And that's just the tablet - you now have to spend $350 on a keyboard case to actually use it like a laptop. You can also use a pen input with the iPad, which you can't with the MacBook, but that's another $130 please. So you can really jack up the price of the iPad with accessories intended to give you laptop-like capabilities. So I don't buy the idea that either device is held back so you have to buy both. The device they're clearly positioning as a do-everything machine is the most expensive one in their lineup.
  - emsy 5y ago
    It’s not a do everything machine: I can’t use it as a tablet. On the other hand what’s holding my iPad back from becoming a do-everything machine is A) sandboxing, which they shouldn’t change or at best streamline to allow better app interoperability (the current share approach is laughably bad) B) what is allowed on the AppStore. This is purely a policy issue. Why isn’t there an isolated XCode that at least lets me develop iPad apps? The MacBook Air is a $1000 work horse, the iPad is a pricey web browsing machine/toy. Save for, say artists and even they are extremely limited. Want to create a 3D model using several apps? Good luck with that
    - threeseed 5y ago
      > It’s not a do everything machine For you. But for the majority of the population it is. Office, Mail, Browser, Photo Editor etc is typically more than enough for most.
zepto 5y ago
> solely because of Apple’s policies. It really isn’t this.
- kactus 5y ago
  Please elaborate.
  - zepto 5y ago
    I love iPads - I have used one almost every day since they were first released. But.. they just aren’t great for the same kinds of professional software that works well on the desktop. It’s not about Apple’s policies. It that the Mac is just better for desktop style apps for obvious reasons. I do think that this can be overcome in the end by really figuring out how to design for the platform, but we are nowhere near that today. I have bought various editors including Coda, and I also bought prompt (which Panic is still working on). I use prompt regularly for impromptu server maintenance or quick diagnostics, but I never use the editors. This is all about what the devices are good for and nothing to do with policies.
    - smoldesu 5y ago
      Either way, the original comment was arguing that the limitations in place are entirely arbitrary, and their argument still rings true. Apparently, the iPhone worked just fine as a code editor: as they mention in the article, the primary technical hurdle was the Javascript engine, which was forced to use Apple's gimped WebKit offerings instead of a real browser engine.
      - zepto 5y ago
        > Either way, the original comment was arguing that the limitations in place are entirely arbitrary, No, the original comment argued that the limitations are the only reason a class of professional software is not successful on iOS, which is certainly false. > Apparently, the iPhone worked just fine as a code editor Obviously it doesn’t work as well as a Mac. Few people would choose to edit code on an iPhone where a Mac or Linux machine was available instead, so no it doesn’t ‘work just fine’.
Tiktaalik 5y ago
It's so so weird. They have this super beefy iPad Pro, that they've kitted out with a nice keyboard attachement. Seemingly all of this is with the suggestion that this iPad is a laptop replacement. And yet, it cannot be a laptop replacement. Bizarre.

Siira 5y ago

It’s not like there is much of an alternative. Android isn’t that much better, and its hardware offerings suck. Apple has an effective monopoly on quality tablet hardware, as far as I know. (I don’t understand why, but then again, I don’t understand how there can be years-long shortages of PS5 either. Why don’t they just increase the fucking price? ...)

justinclift 5y ago
Possibly interestingly, I just bought a 2nd hand MS Surface Pro 3 tablet for about US$300 (8GB RAM, i5 Cpu, 256GB SSD). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Pro_3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface_Pro_3 Specifically because I'm looking for something to run Blender (blender.org) on. The iPad Pro could only run it via Sidecar from a real Mac (eg tethered laptop or similar). Android has an ancient version (circa ~2013), which isn't a real option. Could have spent money on a new Surface Pro, but trying things out on an older model seems to be working so far. :) From my point of view, there are more options than just iOS and Android for tablets. Apparently Linux can be installed on Surface Pro's too, though that's a future "maybe" item for this one.
tomp 5y ago
Microsoft Surface Go is a technological marvel. Full-blown x86 computer in tablet form. I’ve used it for the past year as my only machine (I’m a fulltime + hobby software developer). It’s 100% on par with Apple hardware (including the foldable keyboard & trackpad, and the lack of RAM). Software is a different issue, but for development work it mostly doesn’t matter that much (I use IntellJ, conda, Jupyter & Chrome, and all of those are completely cross platform). I haven’t tried Surface Pro but I imagine it’s equally good, just bigger.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  +1 for the Surface line. Apple can eat their heart out honestly, Ubuntu plus Surface is a pretty killer combo.
justinclift 5y ago
In addition to the MS Surface tablets, Lenovo makes a 2-in-1 laptop with detachable keyboard that can be used as a tablet, and apparently is pretty good at it. eg: https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/X12-Detachable-G1/p/22TPX12X2D1 https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/thinkpad-x/X12... Depending on what you're after, a modern 2-in-1 laptop like the Lenovo Yoga (they have a range), HP Elitebook x360, or similar might work well too: https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-series/c/yoga-2-in-1-series https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/laptops/yoga/yoga-2-in-1-series... https://store.hp.com/au-en/default/business-laptops-elitebook-x360 https://store.hp.com/au-en/default/business-laptops-eliteboo...

imglorp 5y ago

> you can spec out an iPad Pro with the exact same specs There's the root of the policy decision. If one device did everything, why would you buy two? Apple needs you to buy the lap AND the tablet AND the phone and maybe also the watch. Oh and they would also prefer you buy more every year, none of this decade stuff.

kmeisthax 5y ago
Apple has specifically said that they don't hold features back from iPads for the sake of making you buy a Mac. And given their pricing model I'd believe it. If you buy an M1 MacBook Air, you spend $1000 and you get pretty much an amazing laptop that does everything except flip over and let you draw on the screen. If you buy an iPad Pro - the new one with the M1 chip - then you have to spend $1100 to get the 13" model, which has less storage than the MacBook. And that's just the tablet - you now have to spend $350 on a keyboard case to actually use it like a laptop. You can also use a pen input with the iPad, which you can't with the MacBook, but that's another $130 please. So you can really jack up the price of the iPad with accessories intended to give you laptop-like capabilities. So I don't buy the idea that either device is held back so you have to buy both. The device they're clearly positioning as a do-everything machine is the most expensive one in their lineup.
- emsy 5y ago
  It’s not a do everything machine: I can’t use it as a tablet. On the other hand what’s holding my iPad back from becoming a do-everything machine is A) sandboxing, which they shouldn’t change or at best streamline to allow better app interoperability (the current share approach is laughably bad) B) what is allowed on the AppStore. This is purely a policy issue. Why isn’t there an isolated XCode that at least lets me develop iPad apps? The MacBook Air is a $1000 work horse, the iPad is a pricey web browsing machine/toy. Save for, say artists and even they are extremely limited. Want to create a 3D model using several apps? Good luck with that
  - threeseed 5y ago
    > It’s not a do everything machine For you. But for the majority of the population it is. Office, Mail, Browser, Photo Editor etc is typically more than enough for most.

zepto 5y ago

> solely because of Apple’s policies. It really isn’t this.

kactus 5y ago
Please elaborate.
- zepto 5y ago
  I love iPads - I have used one almost every day since they were first released. But.. they just aren’t great for the same kinds of professional software that works well on the desktop. It’s not about Apple’s policies. It that the Mac is just better for desktop style apps for obvious reasons. I do think that this can be overcome in the end by really figuring out how to design for the platform, but we are nowhere near that today. I have bought various editors including Coda, and I also bought prompt (which Panic is still working on). I use prompt regularly for impromptu server maintenance or quick diagnostics, but I never use the editors. This is all about what the devices are good for and nothing to do with policies.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Either way, the original comment was arguing that the limitations in place are entirely arbitrary, and their argument still rings true. Apparently, the iPhone worked just fine as a code editor: as they mention in the article, the primary technical hurdle was the Javascript engine, which was forced to use Apple's gimped WebKit offerings instead of a real browser engine.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > Either way, the original comment was arguing that the limitations in place are entirely arbitrary, No, the original comment argued that the limitations are the only reason a class of professional software is not successful on iOS, which is certainly false. > Apparently, the iPhone worked just fine as a code editor Obviously it doesn’t work as well as a Mac. Few people would choose to edit code on an iPhone where a Mac or Linux machine was available instead, so no it doesn’t ‘work just fine’.

Tiktaalik 5y ago

It's so so weird. They have this super beefy iPad Pro, that they've kitted out with a nice keyboard attachement. Seemingly all of this is with the suggestion that this iPad is a laptop replacement. And yet, it cannot be a laptop replacement. Bizarre.