4 ms·

sometimes I would love to see an A/B test on HN: swap Amazon and Apple here, call it "Find my Homepod" and see the reactions.

ceejayoz 5y ago
Sure. Same reasons “Jeffrey Dahmer invited me for dinner” hits differently than “Mum invited me for dinner”. The two companies have a different track record on privacy.
- KingOfCoders 5y ago
  Ah there, another one falling for Apple marketing. FAAG are all companies that want to make the maximum of money from their current market positioning, assets and brand. There is no inherent ethics in any of these companies. The moment Apple doesn't grow on iPhones/apps and see selling customer payment data as a significat add to revenue, they will sell all your data as every other company. Tim is no more ethical than Mark or Larry or Jeff. The way companies act right now is the way that maximizes their current profit. Rolling out privacy measures on iOS hurts Amazon, Google, Facebook and helps Apples brand, that's the reason Apple does it. And if this changes - e.g. the app store gets decentralized or regulated or people understand they don't need to pay 30% to Apple for a web application - Apple will stop it in a second without any second thought and find new revenue streams, e.g. selling your data. Their historic behaviour is not relevant.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    > There is no inherent ethics in any of these companies. Didn't say that. Said they had a much better track record. AirTags launched with clear consideration to privacy issues, like a stalker dropping one in your bag. They appear to have thought this out well. The recent anti-tracking changes to iOS that Facebook is squealing about are another point in their favor for me. Are they my friend? No. Are their interests currently better aligned with mine? It would seem so.
    - quickthrower2 5y ago
      If by anti tracking you mean the constant permission checking and ability to say “only when app is open” etc. I applaud this.
      - ceejayoz 5y ago
        I'm referring to the more recent iOS 14 changes, especially that it defaults to "no tracking, don't even prompt" - users have to specifically turn on a "let apps ask me" setting to even get a prompt. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27075180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27075180
    - KingOfCoders 5y ago
      "Said they had a much better track record." As I've said, the track isn't important, the current market positioning is. Apple will not care about what they did in the past if their market position and positioning is changing.
    - philjohn 5y ago
      Debatable - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discussed-disclosing-128-million-iphone-hack-then-decided-not-to/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discusse...
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    Are you saying, currently, Apple is better for people concerned with privacy compared to the other big companies?
    - KingOfCoders 5y ago
      For now? Yes, because they build their market positioning on this, it's part of their branding. If this changes they will sell all your data without a second thought.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Then I do not see how ceejayoz is, currently, being fooled by Apple marketing.
        KingOfCoders 5y ago
        https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/05/dove.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/05/dove.html
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Yes, my point is you can simultaneously be aware that Apple can or will screw you in the future, but also choose to place more trust in Apple compared to Amazon at the present time. Interesting read though, thanks for the link!
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- luma 5y ago
  The irony of your response is pretty thick.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    You can't just swap the words without changing the analysis of what the resulting sentence means. Yes, the reaction to this is different if it's an Apple product vs. an Amazon product, because the two companies are different.
- throwaway3699 5y ago
  Two identical companies, one in sheep's clothing. I can't believe you'd compare a corporation to your mum either.
KingOfCoders 5y ago
Why an A/B test? Everything Apple and Tesla does is brilliant, everything anyone else does is evil. Thank me later. Putting that in the HN FAQ would prevent new users losing karma points.
- adam0c 5y ago
  name one original thing apple has done that is even good, besides the original ipod? even that isn't! original
  - athrun 5y ago
    Seems challenging because we’d need to first agree on the definition of “original”, “done” and “good”. Also, the original iPod had less space than a Nomad. Lame.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

ceejayoz 5y ago

Sure. Same reasons “Jeffrey Dahmer invited me for dinner” hits differently than “Mum invited me for dinner”. The two companies have a different track record on privacy.

KingOfCoders 5y ago
Ah there, another one falling for Apple marketing. FAAG are all companies that want to make the maximum of money from their current market positioning, assets and brand. There is no inherent ethics in any of these companies. The moment Apple doesn't grow on iPhones/apps and see selling customer payment data as a significat add to revenue, they will sell all your data as every other company. Tim is no more ethical than Mark or Larry or Jeff. The way companies act right now is the way that maximizes their current profit. Rolling out privacy measures on iOS hurts Amazon, Google, Facebook and helps Apples brand, that's the reason Apple does it. And if this changes - e.g. the app store gets decentralized or regulated or people understand they don't need to pay 30% to Apple for a web application - Apple will stop it in a second without any second thought and find new revenue streams, e.g. selling your data. Their historic behaviour is not relevant.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  > There is no inherent ethics in any of these companies. Didn't say that. Said they had a much better track record. AirTags launched with clear consideration to privacy issues, like a stalker dropping one in your bag. They appear to have thought this out well. The recent anti-tracking changes to iOS that Facebook is squealing about are another point in their favor for me. Are they my friend? No. Are their interests currently better aligned with mine? It would seem so.
  - quickthrower2 5y ago
    If by anti tracking you mean the constant permission checking and ability to say “only when app is open” etc. I applaud this.
    - ceejayoz 5y ago
      I'm referring to the more recent iOS 14 changes, especially that it defaults to "no tracking, don't even prompt" - users have to specifically turn on a "let apps ask me" setting to even get a prompt. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27075180 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27075180
  - KingOfCoders 5y ago
    "Said they had a much better track record." As I've said, the track isn't important, the current market positioning is. Apple will not care about what they did in the past if their market position and positioning is changing.
  - philjohn 5y ago
    Debatable - https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discussed-disclosing-128-million-iphone-hack-then-decided-not-to/ https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/apple-brass-discusse...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  Are you saying, currently, Apple is better for people concerned with privacy compared to the other big companies?
  - KingOfCoders 5y ago
    For now? Yes, because they build their market positioning on this, it's part of their branding. If this changes they will sell all your data without a second thought.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      Then I do not see how ceejayoz is, currently, being fooled by Apple marketing.
      - KingOfCoders 5y ago
        https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/05/dove.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2013/05/dove.html
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Yes, my point is you can simultaneously be aware that Apple can or will screw you in the future, but also choose to place more trust in Apple compared to Amazon at the present time. Interesting read though, thanks for the link!
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
luma 5y ago
The irony of your response is pretty thick.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  You can't just swap the words without changing the analysis of what the resulting sentence means. Yes, the reaction to this is different if it's an Apple product vs. an Amazon product, because the two companies are different.
throwaway3699 5y ago
Two identical companies, one in sheep's clothing. I can't believe you'd compare a corporation to your mum either.

KingOfCoders 5y ago

Why an A/B test? Everything Apple and Tesla does is brilliant, everything anyone else does is evil. Thank me later. Putting that in the HN FAQ would prevent new users losing karma points.

adam0c 5y ago
name one original thing apple has done that is even good, besides the original ipod? even that isn't! original
- athrun 5y ago
  Seems challenging because we’d need to first agree on the definition of “original”, “done” and “good”. Also, the original iPod had less space than a Nomad. Lame.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]