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This is a blatant attempt at using their market power to gain a dominant position in IoT connectivity by creating a parallel Network where Net Neutrality does n

by bijant 5y ago

This is a blatant attempt at using their market power to gain a dominant position in IoT connectivity by creating a parallel Network where Net Neutrality does not apply. If this succeeds, only Amazon approved devices will be allowed on this global Network connecting only to aws provided services thereby establishing a monopoly on non-cellular IoT connectivity. After Apples recent move in the same direction with their „find my“ mesh network of apple devices being used to introduce a whole new mode of operation to support their Air Tags the Question of Net Neutrality has to be extended from just ISPs to Dominant Platforms that have the ability to create derivative Mesh-Networks.

contravariant 5y ago
I can't help but feel that this is only a net neutrality issue because we've already given up on letting people freely choose what kind of mesh-networks (if any) their devices get to participate in.
fastball 5y ago
I'm not sure I see how the customer is hurt in this case (or in the case of Apple's AirTags)?
- ehnto 5y ago
  The customer isn't the last say in what is good for a society or economy, if Amazon puts a moat around IoT that's thousands of companies, products, employees, and unknown innovation all either gone completely or sucked up into Amazon.
  - fastball 5y ago
    How does this put a moat around IoT? This is creating a network that didn't previously exist. How does that hurt innovation? If you don't want to be a part of this network you can just... continue what you were doing before. Now at least there is an option.
    - simongr3dal 5y ago
      It's really not that hard. The user loses freedoms because of technology monocultures and Amazons move will further facilitate a whole television market that semi-covertly spies on the user.
      - fastball 5y ago
        It really is that hard. Technology monoculture? This is built on the back of existing networks, which will continue to exist when this new network is online. Your Smart TV already spies on you. Not sure how this helps.
    - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
      It's literally the same issue as with zero-rating. It's a new "option", but not having it will mean your product has a massive disadvantage.
      - fastball 5y ago
        So the argument is that we should not make improvements to things because making improvements means someone can build a walled garden?
310260 5y ago
There won't be a monopoly on non-cellular IoT connectivity though. There are a ridiculous number of IoT networks out there whether it's Sigfox or some other LoRaWAN solution and more are being built by the day.
jiofih 5y ago
I’m not sure a parallel can be drawn to the Find My network. That one is purely designed for location tracking in an anonymous way, and does not have the ability to transfer data between devices or any other type of tracking.
- jonatanheyman 5y ago
  Not yet, but it could have in a future generation, or even a future firmware update.
  - jiofih 5y ago
    Not really. It’s basically a system to store encrypted coordinates from Bluetooth ids seen. There is no mesh networking capability. https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet... Anything of that sort would be a completely new, unrelated system.
    - angry_octet 5y ago
      AirTags come with UWB as well as Bluetooth. There's no real reason why they couldn't pass messages along. Firstly, AirTags that come within reach of one another. An Apple version of Nest could do the same, and would supercharge the FindMy network. Once these systems are accepted they often get upgraded without significant reconsideration.
- spamalot159 5y ago
  You're right but it is pushing their advantage from the phone sector onto another and forcing out their competition in Tile. That sounds to me like monopolistic activity.
  - jiofih 5y ago
    Tile can have access to the Find My network, as can others. They chose not to.
tootie 5y ago
These are private LANs. They don't own a public network. It will piggyback on your home ISP. I'm pretty sure this is just to simplify IoT network discovery
- pjerem 5y ago
  It will piggyback on any Echo (or compatible product) owner's ISP.

by bijant 5y ago

contravariant 5y ago

I can't help but feel that this is only a net neutrality issue because we've already given up on letting people freely choose what kind of mesh-networks (if any) their devices get to participate in.

fastball 5y ago

I'm not sure I see how the customer is hurt in this case (or in the case of Apple's AirTags)?

ehnto 5y ago
The customer isn't the last say in what is good for a society or economy, if Amazon puts a moat around IoT that's thousands of companies, products, employees, and unknown innovation all either gone completely or sucked up into Amazon.
- fastball 5y ago
  How does this put a moat around IoT? This is creating a network that didn't previously exist. How does that hurt innovation? If you don't want to be a part of this network you can just... continue what you were doing before. Now at least there is an option.
  - simongr3dal 5y ago
    It's really not that hard. The user loses freedoms because of technology monocultures and Amazons move will further facilitate a whole television market that semi-covertly spies on the user.
    - fastball 5y ago
      It really is that hard. Technology monoculture? This is built on the back of existing networks, which will continue to exist when this new network is online. Your Smart TV already spies on you. Not sure how this helps.
  - ImprobableTruth 5y ago
    It's literally the same issue as with zero-rating. It's a new "option", but not having it will mean your product has a massive disadvantage.
    - fastball 5y ago
      So the argument is that we should not make improvements to things because making improvements means someone can build a walled garden?

310260 5y ago

There won't be a monopoly on non-cellular IoT connectivity though. There are a ridiculous number of IoT networks out there whether it's Sigfox or some other LoRaWAN solution and more are being built by the day.

jiofih 5y ago

I’m not sure a parallel can be drawn to the Find My network. That one is purely designed for location tracking in an anonymous way, and does not have the ability to transfer data between devices or any other type of tracking.

jonatanheyman 5y ago
Not yet, but it could have in a future generation, or even a future firmware update.
- jiofih 5y ago
  Not really. It’s basically a system to store encrypted coordinates from Bluetooth ids seen. There is no mesh networking capability. https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluetooth/ https://www.wired.com/story/apple-find-my-cryptography-bluet... Anything of that sort would be a completely new, unrelated system.
  - angry_octet 5y ago
    AirTags come with UWB as well as Bluetooth. There's no real reason why they couldn't pass messages along. Firstly, AirTags that come within reach of one another. An Apple version of Nest could do the same, and would supercharge the FindMy network. Once these systems are accepted they often get upgraded without significant reconsideration.
spamalot159 5y ago
You're right but it is pushing their advantage from the phone sector onto another and forcing out their competition in Tile. That sounds to me like monopolistic activity.
- jiofih 5y ago
  Tile can have access to the Find My network, as can others. They chose not to.

tootie 5y ago

These are private LANs. They don't own a public network. It will piggyback on your home ISP. I'm pretty sure this is just to simplify IoT network discovery

pjerem 5y ago
It will piggyback on any Echo (or compatible product) owner's ISP.