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Essential consciousness is the self appearance of free will. MWI still has randomness - how do you think you reside in one universe versus a different one? You

Essential consciousness is the self appearance of free will. MWI still has randomness - how do you think you reside in one universe versus a different one? You keep sidestepping with erroneous statements. Rules are not a source of real randomness and there is a consensus among physicists that quantum randomness is actually true randomness. Even if you put the source of randomness into some other thing like dark matter, you cannot explain its construct..because all you have is rules. You must forfeit and concede to nature a black box RNG library. This is clearly ludicrous. The more obvious and consistent view is that conscious beings (that feel they have willful decisions) are the manifestation of nature's RNG for quantum mechanics IIT is an entirely different beast related to self attention, a different kind of definition for consciousness, that has little to do with will. Unrelated... QM is unitary, but it is one to many. It's a giant branching rooted tree. This is irrelevant, it is not deterministic like general relativity. Please step back in the element. These refutations are becoming exhausting.

tsimionescu 5y ago
No, MWI has no randomness. All versions of you exist and are as real. The moment after the Big Bang, the fact that we would be having this conversation in the year 2021 on Earth was certain. This is an absolute requirement from the linearity of the Schrodinger's equation, which means that every state is uniquely determined by the states that came before. If you could measure the state of the universe with enough precision, you could tell today what I will feel tomorrow. And sure, each copy of you may experience a different comment, but they are indistinguishable, and all possible comments will be experienced. In CI there is indeed true randomness, since only one 'branch' of the wavefunction is actually happening.
- goldenkey 5y ago
  The randomness in MWI is observer-centric. It's trivially obvious. You reside in one world of many. The theory doesn't explain why your consciousness follows a specific bifurcation. The supposed copies of you are irrelevant.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    The theory does not allow for 'your consciousness' to exist as a meaningful concept that experiences more than one moment. Say you are going to flip a quantum coin. Before you flip it, given MWI, you know that there will be two copies of you, each experiencing one of the outcomes. After you flip it, one copy sees tails, the other heads. Each copy is perfectly identical except for the new observation. Each may ask itself 'what were the chances that I am seeing heads/tails?', and with MWI in mind, they should answer 1: the chance that the copy-that-sees-heads sees heads is 1, and same for copy-who-sees-tails seeing tails, since there is no other way to identify them as separate entities. This also corresponds to the mathematics of QM: if you want to give proper predictions, you need to 'update' the wavefunciton to have value 1 for the observed outcome and value 0 for any other outcome. Doing that for 'your branch' is precisely how MWI works.
    - goldenkey 5y ago
      Ffs, I understand the linearity of the Shrodinger equation under a model which MW entails. However, you are sidestepping the randomness involved in the choice of world that you reside in. You can dress it up all you want, but your consciousness is bound to one world of the many worlds. And that is defacto random.

tsimionescu 5y ago

No, MWI has no randomness. All versions of you exist and are as real. The moment after the Big Bang, the fact that we would be having this conversation in the year 2021 on Earth was certain. This is an absolute requirement from the linearity of the Schrodinger's equation, which means that every state is uniquely determined by the states that came before. If you could measure the state of the universe with enough precision, you could tell today what I will feel tomorrow. And sure, each copy of you may experience a different comment, but they are indistinguishable, and all possible comments will be experienced. In CI there is indeed true randomness, since only one 'branch' of the wavefunction is actually happening.

goldenkey 5y ago
The randomness in MWI is observer-centric. It's trivially obvious. You reside in one world of many. The theory doesn't explain why your consciousness follows a specific bifurcation. The supposed copies of you are irrelevant.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  The theory does not allow for 'your consciousness' to exist as a meaningful concept that experiences more than one moment. Say you are going to flip a quantum coin. Before you flip it, given MWI, you know that there will be two copies of you, each experiencing one of the outcomes. After you flip it, one copy sees tails, the other heads. Each copy is perfectly identical except for the new observation. Each may ask itself 'what were the chances that I am seeing heads/tails?', and with MWI in mind, they should answer 1: the chance that the copy-that-sees-heads sees heads is 1, and same for copy-who-sees-tails seeing tails, since there is no other way to identify them as separate entities. This also corresponds to the mathematics of QM: if you want to give proper predictions, you need to 'update' the wavefunciton to have value 1 for the observed outcome and value 0 for any other outcome. Doing that for 'your branch' is precisely how MWI works.
  - goldenkey 5y ago
    Ffs, I understand the linearity of the Shrodinger equation under a model which MW entails. However, you are sidestepping the randomness involved in the choice of world that you reside in. You can dress it up all you want, but your consciousness is bound to one world of the many worlds. And that is defacto random.