4 ms·

Can someone explain to me what I'm missing with regards to how much they're currently earning? Looking at their base support sponsors (of which there are 4), th

by tren 5y ago

Can someone explain to me what I'm missing with regards to how much they're currently earning? Looking at their base support sponsors (of which there are 4), they are each paying a minimum of $24,000 each ($96,000/year). There are 5 gold sponsors of at least $1000/month ($60,000/year) and 24 silver sponsors of at least $500/month ($120,000/year). That's already $276K without including the bronze/backer tiers.

tarruda 5y ago
If you split by 3 full time devs, that's more 90k/year which allows for a decent living in most places. Probably not enough for San Francisco though.
- sofixa 5y ago
  $90k/year is between a good and outrageously good salary for Europe, depending on the country. So yeah, plenty of talent available for cheaper than $90k/year.
  - snemvalts 5y ago
    Keep in mind that most taxes and benefits are missing there, so it's better to consider US salaries as payroll costs in Europe. In my fairly liberal country (Estonia), 75k eur a year renders around 42k eur a year take home, really great salary living costs wise but taxes still take a large chunk.
    - hiram112 5y ago
      75K EUR / year is a legit salary in Estonia now? Wow, you guys are really catching up fast. I would have assumed former Soviet bloc countries were still down there at $30K or so (even less in Ukraine, Moldova, etc.). Is this something special with Estonia, or are salaries catching up in the rest of Baltics, Poland, etc?
      - snemvalts 5y ago
        Depending on where you work, if you're a great developer then the income can be around 2500-4500€ a month take home, which is 40k - 90k eur (gross, not payroll) a year. Considering the average (and very liveable) salary is 1100€ take home a month, it's really great living costs wise. I think apart from the post-soviet Central European countries, Baltics are the outliers, and Estonia is the outlier among them (with Lithuania catching up). Mostly because of lenient tax policies and high levels of entrepreneurship. But all this growth does increase inequality a lot, a person in the countryside might take home 600-800€ a month in comparison.
    - charrondev 5y ago
      Payroll cost is higher than that. Those numbers don’t include the other costs paid by the employer - payroll taxes (as and Medicare) - unemployment insurance (SUTA/FUTA) - workers comp - health insurance (most Americans have the large percentage paid by their employer).
  - indemnity 5y ago
    I don’t understand why salaries are so low in Europe. I work in New Zealand, not exactly a tech hub, and I’m on $220k p.a. (mid career). $160k US, 130k EUR. 39% top tax. I wouldn’t say I am significantly above average and I’m not in management (architect/principal engineer). Similar story in Australia. Not quite US levels but decent compensation, I don’t feel taken advantage of.
    - emptyfile 5y ago
      Because supply and demand? What sort of answer do you think you'll get? We get it, anglos are a lot more rich then averaege europeans. Congrats.
      - esrauch 5y ago
        I don't think that's fair: Software Engineer salaries in London are also relatively low compared to non-SV-major-city-US. And it's not across the board since Finance jobs in the same area pay better, so it seems that there's something specifically about how that one role is valued.
    - anon98356 5y ago
      Does that figure take into account cost of living? When I left NZ 6 years ago it wasn't a cheap place to live.
      - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
        220k is sweet as in NZ even if you're living in Wellington or Auckland.
        anon98356 5y ago
        Yeh I'm sure 220k is a great salary for NZ. But in terms of purchasing power, how does it compare to $70k-£80k in the UK (I don't know, as I said haven't lived in NZ for 6 years)? I'd also be interested to know how common it is to be on 200k+ as a dev in NZ (edit: spelling/grammar)
  - skerit 5y ago
    Is that before or after taxes? In Belgium, a self employed freelancer earning only 90.000 dollars a year (73.000 euros) is really not that much.
    - drawfloat 5y ago
      That's still far from "not that much". You're not gonna be buying a jet anytime soon, but it's far and above the 20-30k many developers outside of city centres get stuck on.
- capableweb 5y ago
  > that's more 90k/year which allows for a decent living in most places Not only a decent living, but that's a very good salary in most places in the world. As an anecdote, I've always worked in private sector IT (as a developer and manager), have around 20 years of experience and worked in both small and big enterprises and startups, and I've never had that high salary. If you'd offer me that for working on open source full-time, I'd be surprised. My expectation would be that there is a ton of people willing to work for much less, so why Babel had to go with that person? > Probably not enough for San Francisco though Good thing Babel, Open Source and everything else related to this has nothing to do with San Francisco but still the group somehow want to have SF salaries. Yeah, I wonder why?
- rk06 5y ago
  there are 4 devs, so 69k per year. I don't how it is in USA. but that's less than your 90k/year figure by a significant amount

by tren 5y ago

tarruda 5y ago

If you split by 3 full time devs, that's more 90k/year which allows for a decent living in most places. Probably not enough for San Francisco though.

sofixa 5y ago
$90k/year is between a good and outrageously good salary for Europe, depending on the country. So yeah, plenty of talent available for cheaper than $90k/year.
- snemvalts 5y ago
  Keep in mind that most taxes and benefits are missing there, so it's better to consider US salaries as payroll costs in Europe. In my fairly liberal country (Estonia), 75k eur a year renders around 42k eur a year take home, really great salary living costs wise but taxes still take a large chunk.
  - hiram112 5y ago
    75K EUR / year is a legit salary in Estonia now? Wow, you guys are really catching up fast. I would have assumed former Soviet bloc countries were still down there at $30K or so (even less in Ukraine, Moldova, etc.). Is this something special with Estonia, or are salaries catching up in the rest of Baltics, Poland, etc?
    - snemvalts 5y ago
      Depending on where you work, if you're a great developer then the income can be around 2500-4500€ a month take home, which is 40k - 90k eur (gross, not payroll) a year. Considering the average (and very liveable) salary is 1100€ take home a month, it's really great living costs wise. I think apart from the post-soviet Central European countries, Baltics are the outliers, and Estonia is the outlier among them (with Lithuania catching up). Mostly because of lenient tax policies and high levels of entrepreneurship. But all this growth does increase inequality a lot, a person in the countryside might take home 600-800€ a month in comparison.
  - charrondev 5y ago
    Payroll cost is higher than that. Those numbers don’t include the other costs paid by the employer - payroll taxes (as and Medicare) - unemployment insurance (SUTA/FUTA) - workers comp - health insurance (most Americans have the large percentage paid by their employer).
- indemnity 5y ago
  I don’t understand why salaries are so low in Europe. I work in New Zealand, not exactly a tech hub, and I’m on $220k p.a. (mid career). $160k US, 130k EUR. 39% top tax. I wouldn’t say I am significantly above average and I’m not in management (architect/principal engineer). Similar story in Australia. Not quite US levels but decent compensation, I don’t feel taken advantage of.
  - emptyfile 5y ago
    Because supply and demand? What sort of answer do you think you'll get? We get it, anglos are a lot more rich then averaege europeans. Congrats.
    - esrauch 5y ago
      I don't think that's fair: Software Engineer salaries in London are also relatively low compared to non-SV-major-city-US. And it's not across the board since Finance jobs in the same area pay better, so it seems that there's something specifically about how that one role is valued.
  - anon98356 5y ago
    Does that figure take into account cost of living? When I left NZ 6 years ago it wasn't a cheap place to live.
    - ZephyrBlu 5y ago
      220k is sweet as in NZ even if you're living in Wellington or Auckland.
      - anon98356 5y ago
        Yeh I'm sure 220k is a great salary for NZ. But in terms of purchasing power, how does it compare to $70k-£80k in the UK (I don't know, as I said haven't lived in NZ for 6 years)? I'd also be interested to know how common it is to be on 200k+ as a dev in NZ (edit: spelling/grammar)
- skerit 5y ago
  Is that before or after taxes? In Belgium, a self employed freelancer earning only 90.000 dollars a year (73.000 euros) is really not that much.
  - drawfloat 5y ago
    That's still far from "not that much". You're not gonna be buying a jet anytime soon, but it's far and above the 20-30k many developers outside of city centres get stuck on.
capableweb 5y ago
> that's more 90k/year which allows for a decent living in most places Not only a decent living, but that's a very good salary in most places in the world. As an anecdote, I've always worked in private sector IT (as a developer and manager), have around 20 years of experience and worked in both small and big enterprises and startups, and I've never had that high salary. If you'd offer me that for working on open source full-time, I'd be surprised. My expectation would be that there is a ton of people willing to work for much less, so why Babel had to go with that person? > Probably not enough for San Francisco though Good thing Babel, Open Source and everything else related to this has nothing to do with San Francisco but still the group somehow want to have SF salaries. Yeah, I wonder why?
rk06 5y ago
there are 4 devs, so 69k per year. I don't how it is in USA. but that's less than your 90k/year figure by a significant amount