4 ms·

> WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? People have real distrust of the system that produced

> WTF? Why? You have a free, safe, live-saving vaccine being offered to you! Why would you not take it?? People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly. I know from your perspective scepticism is hard to understand, but it's not that God tells me science is fake or anything so outlandish. I genuinely don't trust the corporations and government selling me the story of the disease and now the vaccine, and it should be allowed that people question these institutions.

loxias 5y ago
> People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly. WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT. Do others not hear the ambulances? Do they not see the overflow from the hospitals? Are the dead bodies some sort of elaborate deep fake?? Has the whole world gone mad??? Brother, I love skepticism. It's healthy. It's *good*. I don't blindly trust corporations or the government, as far as I'm concerned the former only wants profit and the latter only wants power. But that's got nothing to do with it, from my perspective. When your house is on fire you don't debate the motivations of the fire department. You put out the fire first, and THEN have time for dithering and analysis.
- toast0 5y ago
  > WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT. I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time. Push towards massive adoption of an intervention sets off my alarm bells. All that said, personally, it seems the unknown long term risks of vaccination outweigh the more or less known risks of covid both on an individual level (I don't want to get it) and a community level (I'd rather like community spread to stop, so I can go back to being a hermit by choice); but if community spread wasn't happening near me, I would be happier not trying new medicine within a year of development.
  - Pyramus 5y ago
    > I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time. Push towards massive adoption of an intervention sets off my alarm bells. These events sadly happen and there will always be unknown unknowns, not only, but also because of human hubris. However, it seems you are overestimating the prevalence of such events and extrapolating that to the current situation. If you take a birds-eye view on medical progress over the last 50-100 years says, it's just incredible. > All that said, personally, it seems the unknown long term risks of vaccination outweigh the more or less known risks of covid both on an individual level (I don't want to get it) and a community level (I'd rather like community spread to stop, so I can go back to being a hermit by choice); but if community spread wasn't happening near me, I would be happier not trying new medicine within a year of development. Agree with you. From what we know today it seems that the unknown long term risks of the vaccines are a subset of the unknown long term risks of Covid.
- g3e0 5y ago
  I know this is an inflammatory topic that evokes visceral feelings but.. you should be aware that when you are trying to change someone's mind, aggressive arguing like this is much more likely to make the other person believe what they already believe more strongly (i.e. the opposite of what you want).
garmaine 5y ago
Go to your local hospital and see for yourself how deadly the disease is.
- reedjosh 5y ago
  I can't just walk in. That said I know several people that have had it. Some elderly with existing conditions. Worst case was my aunt who got pneumonia from it. She's in her mid sixties and diabetic. She was in the hospital for a week. Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.
  - sterlind 5y ago
    my coworker's parents caught it. they were in their 50s. the mom became severely ill and was hospitalized for weeks. the dad died. my coworker himself got it and was mostly fine. it's really hard to intuit how wildly variable this disease is when you only have a couple personal data points and distrust/feel detached from the statistics being reported, but it's real.
    - stordoff 5y ago
      Going only off personal experience can really skew your perceptions. If I'd've been living away from home at the time, and thus avoided catching it, it would've completely changed the colour of our experiences: * Mother, 50s - metallic taste for two weeks, loss of appetite, some fatigue * Father, 50s - sore throat for a week * Sister, ~20 / Grandmother, ~80 - both had similar symptoms of fatigue, body aches, sore throat, feeling hot/cold, some change to taste * Grandfather, ~85, multiple pre-existing conditions (COPD, heart failure, prediabetes, history of TIAs) - only reason we knew he had it was due to a positive test Going off those alone, it seems unpleasant but not too dire. Then you add me in: * Me, 30 - same symptoms as sister/grandmother for about a week, then ten days in the ICU after my O2 sats dropped to 78 overnight (and remained in the 80s on oxygen). Narrowly avoided ventilation as I responded to CPAP. Suddenly it seems a lot more serious.
  - DeliriumTrigger 5y ago

loxias 5y ago

> People have real distrust of the system that produced the vaccine and even distrust of the media that purports this disease is so deadly. WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT. Do others not hear the ambulances? Do they not see the overflow from the hospitals? Are the dead bodies some sort of elaborate deep fake?? Has the whole world gone mad??? Brother, I love skepticism. It's healthy. It's *good*. I don't blindly trust corporations or the government, as far as I'm concerned the former only wants profit and the latter only wants power. But that's got nothing to do with it, from my perspective. When your house is on fire you don't debate the motivations of the fire department. You put out the fire first, and THEN have time for dithering and analysis.

toast0 5y ago
> WHY??? Why do they distrust the vaccine?? Anything? Any possible reason? It's probably the safest vaccine ever made. I. DON'T. GET. IT. I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time. Push towards massive adoption of an intervention sets off my alarm bells. All that said, personally, it seems the unknown long term risks of vaccination outweigh the more or less known risks of covid both on an individual level (I don't want to get it) and a community level (I'd rather like community spread to stop, so I can go back to being a hermit by choice); but if community spread wasn't happening near me, I would be happier not trying new medicine within a year of development.
- Pyramus 5y ago
  > I'm getting my 2nd shot this week, but both mRNA and modified adenovirus vaccines have never been used for mass vaccinations before. The history of medicine is litered with interventions that were seen as totally safe and wonderful and lead to terrible consequences after some time. Push towards massive adoption of an intervention sets off my alarm bells. These events sadly happen and there will always be unknown unknowns, not only, but also because of human hubris. However, it seems you are overestimating the prevalence of such events and extrapolating that to the current situation. If you take a birds-eye view on medical progress over the last 50-100 years says, it's just incredible. > All that said, personally, it seems the unknown long term risks of vaccination outweigh the more or less known risks of covid both on an individual level (I don't want to get it) and a community level (I'd rather like community spread to stop, so I can go back to being a hermit by choice); but if community spread wasn't happening near me, I would be happier not trying new medicine within a year of development. Agree with you. From what we know today it seems that the unknown long term risks of the vaccines are a subset of the unknown long term risks of Covid.
g3e0 5y ago
I know this is an inflammatory topic that evokes visceral feelings but.. you should be aware that when you are trying to change someone's mind, aggressive arguing like this is much more likely to make the other person believe what they already believe more strongly (i.e. the opposite of what you want).

garmaine 5y ago

Go to your local hospital and see for yourself how deadly the disease is.

reedjosh 5y ago
I can't just walk in. That said I know several people that have had it. Some elderly with existing conditions. Worst case was my aunt who got pneumonia from it. She's in her mid sixties and diabetic. She was in the hospital for a week. Was in the emergency room with my son a few months back, not overflowing or anything, but I wasn't there to track Covid cases.
- sterlind 5y ago
  my coworker's parents caught it. they were in their 50s. the mom became severely ill and was hospitalized for weeks. the dad died. my coworker himself got it and was mostly fine. it's really hard to intuit how wildly variable this disease is when you only have a couple personal data points and distrust/feel detached from the statistics being reported, but it's real.
  - stordoff 5y ago
    Going only off personal experience can really skew your perceptions. If I'd've been living away from home at the time, and thus avoided catching it, it would've completely changed the colour of our experiences: * Mother, 50s - metallic taste for two weeks, loss of appetite, some fatigue * Father, 50s - sore throat for a week * Sister, ~20 / Grandmother, ~80 - both had similar symptoms of fatigue, body aches, sore throat, feeling hot/cold, some change to taste * Grandfather, ~85, multiple pre-existing conditions (COPD, heart failure, prediabetes, history of TIAs) - only reason we knew he had it was due to a positive test Going off those alone, it seems unpleasant but not too dire. Then you add me in: * Me, 30 - same symptoms as sister/grandmother for about a week, then ten days in the ICU after my O2 sats dropped to 78 overnight (and remained in the 80s on oxygen). Narrowly avoided ventilation as I responded to CPAP. Suddenly it seems a lot more serious.
- DeliriumTrigger 5y ago