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The vaccines target specific (and multiple) regions of the spike protein, so a given mutation of the protein is not likely to make a vaccine null and void (henc

by cmckn 5y ago

The vaccines target specific (and multiple) regions of the spike protein, so a given mutation of the protein is not likely to make a vaccine null and void (hence the current success of the vaccines against variants). A "natural" COVID infection could lead to similar protection, or less; but it's not likely that a natural infection gives you some kind of AAA protection. Being infected can also hurt you, after all. There is literally no downside to receiving the vaccine if you've already had COVID, so I would encourage everyone to get vaccinated regardless :)

tialaramex 5y ago
It's not quite no downside. It may be inconvenient (especially if you live in a country where you can't necessarily get time off work to seek medical treatment) and you're quite likely to have a sore arm. Some people experience fever, headaches, or other annoying symptoms for a day or even longer. I had a powerful craving for a kebab, at like 0400 when all the kebab shops are closed, maybe a coincidence, but maybe not. If you told me I can get a free Coke, but I have to take an hour off work and then my arm will be sore for two days, I think I'll pass on your "free" Coke. Now, of course the excellent chance of becoming immune to a respiratory infection that's killing loads of people is a much better offer than a Coke. So I agree people should take up this offer, get yourself vaccinated - but we shouldn't claim "literally no downside".
- selcuka 5y ago
  Not the OP, but to be fair the exact quote was: > no downside to receiving the vaccine if you've already had COVID So I assume that this means that there is no difference in potential unwanted effects between persons who have already had COVID and who have not.
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    Fair
- greg5green 5y ago
  >I had a powerful craving for a kebab, at like 0400 when all the kebab shops are closed, maybe a coincidence, but maybe not to be fair, you could have scheduled your shot at a different time so the kebab shops would have been open amirite
- cmckn 5y ago
  I totally take your point, but frankly, I’m not interested in convincing someone who would avoid the vax because of the (minor, very manageable) side effects. I’ll let the public health folks tackle that one ;) I honestly hoped I had more side effects! You know you’re not getting sick, so a mild fever? Kind of a perverse pleasure.
  - tialaramex 5y ago
    With the AstraZeneca vaccine (and presumably J&J would be similar) a consideration is that the side effects you see might actually have to do with the platform itself. Unlike the mRNA platforms, these vaccines use an existing virus to make the spike proteins. Specifically, an Adenovirus (so the sort of thing that might be implicated in some colds) but which ordinarily thrives in Chimpanzees instead of Humans, so they can have confidence you aren't immune to it already. The virus is altered to tell human cells to make the protein chosen by the engineers (for COVID-19 this was the spike protein from the SARS-CoV-2 virus); and not more copies of itself, once the copies in the vaccine injection are cleaned up (typically a few hours to a few days) the virus is gone, so you can't "catch" the virus. But of course your immune system has no particular reason not to destroy this (harmless) Chimp virus meanwhile, it shouldn't be in your body, so it's every bit as much a target as the spike proteins we want immunity against. Thus, it's certainly possible any fever one particular patient suffers is a side effect from their immune defence against this poor harmless chimp adenovirus, and nothing to do with SARS-nCOV-2 or its spike protein. No way to tell for sure I believe.
selcuka 5y ago
So are mRNA vaccines are more effective than conventional (i.e. dead virus) vaccines and natural immunity because they target a smaller set of proteins, effectively telling the immune system exactly which protein to produce antibodies for?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
o-__-o 5y ago
20 million people tested positive before vaccines became abundant. Let’s stay on the topic of those people protection levels :)

by cmckn 5y ago

tialaramex 5y ago

It's not quite no downside. It may be inconvenient (especially if you live in a country where you can't necessarily get time off work to seek medical treatment) and you're quite likely to have a sore arm. Some people experience fever, headaches, or other annoying symptoms for a day or even longer. I had a powerful craving for a kebab, at like 0400 when all the kebab shops are closed, maybe a coincidence, but maybe not. If you told me I can get a free Coke, but I have to take an hour off work and then my arm will be sore for two days, I think I'll pass on your "free" Coke. Now, of course the excellent chance of becoming immune to a respiratory infection that's killing loads of people is a much better offer than a Coke. So I agree people should take up this offer, get yourself vaccinated - but we shouldn't claim "literally no downside".

selcuka 5y ago
Not the OP, but to be fair the exact quote was: > no downside to receiving the vaccine if you've already had COVID So I assume that this means that there is no difference in potential unwanted effects between persons who have already had COVID and who have not.
- tialaramex 5y ago
  Fair
greg5green 5y ago
>I had a powerful craving for a kebab, at like 0400 when all the kebab shops are closed, maybe a coincidence, but maybe not to be fair, you could have scheduled your shot at a different time so the kebab shops would have been open amirite
cmckn 5y ago
I totally take your point, but frankly, I’m not interested in convincing someone who would avoid the vax because of the (minor, very manageable) side effects. I’ll let the public health folks tackle that one ;) I honestly hoped I had more side effects! You know you’re not getting sick, so a mild fever? Kind of a perverse pleasure.
- tialaramex 5y ago
  With the AstraZeneca vaccine (and presumably J&J would be similar) a consideration is that the side effects you see might actually have to do with the platform itself. Unlike the mRNA platforms, these vaccines use an existing virus to make the spike proteins. Specifically, an Adenovirus (so the sort of thing that might be implicated in some colds) but which ordinarily thrives in Chimpanzees instead of Humans, so they can have confidence you aren't immune to it already. The virus is altered to tell human cells to make the protein chosen by the engineers (for COVID-19 this was the spike protein from the SARS-CoV-2 virus); and not more copies of itself, once the copies in the vaccine injection are cleaned up (typically a few hours to a few days) the virus is gone, so you can't "catch" the virus. But of course your immune system has no particular reason not to destroy this (harmless) Chimp virus meanwhile, it shouldn't be in your body, so it's every bit as much a target as the spike proteins we want immunity against. Thus, it's certainly possible any fever one particular patient suffers is a side effect from their immune defence against this poor harmless chimp adenovirus, and nothing to do with SARS-nCOV-2 or its spike protein. No way to tell for sure I believe.

selcuka 5y ago

So are mRNA vaccines are more effective than conventional (i.e. dead virus) vaccines and natural immunity because they target a smaller set of proteins, effectively telling the immune system exactly which protein to produce antibodies for?

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

o-__-o 5y ago

20 million people tested positive before vaccines became abundant. Let’s stay on the topic of those people protection levels :)