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Or let the price rise to equilibrate supply & demand. Rationing tends to create a black market as people who need cash more than they need fuel trade their fue
by nostrademons 6y ago
Or let the price rise to equilibrate supply & demand. Rationing tends to create a black market as people who need cash more than they need fuel trade their fuel for cash with people who need fuel more than they need cash.
- thenewwazoo 6y agoThis comment is precisely right if the goal is to efficiently allocate capital, or if the state isn't prepared to punish those who violate rationing orders sufficiently to make the risk outweigh the reward (whether on the supply side or the demand side).
- jjoonathan 6y agoThat would tend to allocate the resource according to wealth. It's probably not the largest issue here, but historically this has turned ugly when food shortages were involved and the market cheerfully prioritized middle class hoarding over lower class life-and-death needs.
- throwaway09223 6y agoResources are allocated according to wealth, full stop. If you have money you can always pay someone to obtain it (by waiting in line or whatever) Recognizing and accepting this fact is the first step towards fixing supply issues.
- javajosh 6y agoFraud has risk.
- markvdb 6y agoYour reasoning may hold true in many cases. Just please don't follow this "resources are allocated according to wealth, full stop" line to the absurd as you did. You'll get revolts by the have-nots. They will go get what they need from the haves. Money is not just an abstract store of wealth. It's a store of wealth backed by state violence.
- throwaway09223 6y agoI haven't followed anything to the absurd. This is how things currently are as a matter of fact. Using the above example, wealthy people will be able to get gas for their cars during a shortage, regardless of whether there's rationing in place. Whether we like it or not, this is trivially observable. People don't revolt because wealthy people can gas their cars. They revolt when they don't have what they need. Again using the above example, the vehicles of wealthy people simply don't represent a significant consumption of gas. It's not reasonable to talk of revolts or other such nonsense in this context.
- hooande 6y agoThe pointless throwaway account is right. Even if the have-nots revolt, they will immediately go back to using some form of money to exchange goods with each other. We can debate how wealthy individuals should become or how high tax rates can be, but wealth will always be how resources are ultimately allocated
- danielheath 6y agoWhen a mob, driven by ongoing deprivation, smashes your window and takes your goods - it may be a stretch to say money was the cause of the redistribution.
- nostrademons 6y agoRevolts by the have-nots are pretty common in world history. Revolts by the have-nots where they actually succeed in displacing the haves are rare; I can only think of the French and Russian revolutions. Revolts where everybody suddenly has enough without creating new classes of haves and have-nots are unheard of. Most revolts end up with poor people killing other poor people, or at "best", everybody killing everybody. When "money" (distinct from wealth) ceases to have the backing of state violence, it's replaced by private violence, backed by other forms of wealth.
- kolinko 6y agoI lived in a communist country that rationed everything (meat, fuel, and so on, due to persistent shortages). No, money didn’t matter much. You could have money and still do nothing with it. You needed connections and an ability to kombinować (untranslable word, but somenthing akin to hustle or hack). Not saying here that rationing is bad by itself (I think people would starve or revolt otherwise). But that your „full stop” is not always true. Also, during mask shortages and toilet paper shortages last year, in no country I think, money would help you much. I could pay $1000 for N95 back then (literally), and wasn’t able to find one. Oh oh, and remember that scene in Titanic where a rich guy offers a pile of money to get on a life boat? :,)
- arcticbull 6y ago> kombinować To scheme or connive feels about right to me haha. It's a tough word for sure.
- kolinko 6y agoI would love someone to explain the downvotes here, thanks.
- throwaway09223 6y agoI didn't downvote you, but I think people may have downvoted you because some of the points you made are either not accurate or are somewhat misleading. * It's always been possible to buy a n95 mask at a $1k/mask price point in the US. I'm sure you never tried making that offer. * My post was about wealth, and your reply switches this with "money," and then points out that sometimes money loses value. This is a straw man. If money has reduced value then it isn't necessarily indicative of wealth. When I talk about wealth it may be money in healthy, capitalist countries. In communist countries, wealth may take the form of political connections, of less measurable forms of power. * The titanic scenario you propose, a zero-sum scramble for life, is not at all like the business situations we're discussing where people are typically focused on making a living through the exchange of goods and services.
- 6y ago
- legerdemain 6y agoWhat a textbook response. Do you think American consumers, to take one example, are orderly enough to abide by a $1000 roll of Charmin?
- gbacon 6y agoAmerican consumers have been taught the incorrect cost-plus concept of price formation under which significant increases are tantamount to the imaginary crime of "price gouging."
- adrianN 6y agoUsury is a crime where I live.
- Lammy 6y agoFun fact: South Dakota gave lenders exemption from usury laws in 1980, leading to the modern credit card industry as we all know it: https://sdlegislature.gov/Statutes/Codified_Laws/2072176 https://sdlegislature.gov/Statutes/Codified_Laws/2072176 https://www.argusleader.com/story/stu-whitney/2015/04/04/whitney-real-story-behind-citibank/25296111/ https://www.argusleader.com/story/stu-whitney/2015/04/04/whi...
- treeman79 6y agoA bidet is less then that. If one product becomes extremely scarce, find an alternative. Trying to force the price down causes a lot of problems.
- alisonkisk 6y agoA bidet is less than that not during a crisis.
- resonantjacket5 6y agoYou can do a tiered system. First 10 something gallons is 'rationed' price with it getting slightly more expensive as you want more. Allows you to get more if you really need it, but also ensures that most can get at least some. Albeit it is a lot more complicated to rollout.
- InvertedRhodium 6y ago>Allows you to get more if you really need it Well, not really. It allows me to get more if I can afford it, regardless of need.
- throwaway316943 6y agoUnfortunately we don’t have a better way of determining need other than the amount of work, wealth or property someone is willing to exchange for something. Open to good suggestions though.
- alisonkisk 6y agoTax the rich so they can't outbid on everything.
- treeman79 6y agoNow you need government workers to decide all this. Costing lot and Reducing efficiency further. So now the base level price of gas is much higher and you don’t have any extra gas to go around. Everyone is poorer. Let prices rise. People will scramble to send gas where it is needed to make a quick buck. Those that it hits hard will drive a lot less. Those that hate the high bills will get more efficient vehicles. Supply goes up, demand goes down, prices fall again.
- anigbrowl 6y agoThere's nothing wrong with that. Black markets are in general a Good Thing.