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Or we could not police people's language. "So" is a way to start sentences; like anything else, it can be overused. Just like "like", etc. There's a good podca

Or we could not police people's language. "So" is a way to start sentences; like anything else, it can be overused. Just like "like", etc. There's a good podcast episode from John Mcwhorter on this "So" phenomenon. [0] TL;DL It has some interesting applications (including functioning as a discourse marker), and isn't going away anytime soon. [0]: https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/10/john-mcwhorter-on-starting-sentences-with-so.html https://slate.com/human-interest/2018/10/john-mcwhorter-on-s...

chrismorgan 5y ago
Like it or not, perception matters. Take accents as a similar and more obvious case: rural accents will often cause you to be looked down on, and so some find it extremely valuable to deliberately adjust their accent (in some lines of work, it’s pretty much essential to hone a certain accent). So it’s often worth at least contemplating such feedback, if you care about being taken seriously. (But don’t get too hung up on it if you’re just a normal person, either.) Just to emphasise this the more clearly: I’m talking about facts of life here, not ideals.
- jchw 5y ago
  Well, I think that starting a sentence with “So” is pretty natural and common. Indeed: > So it’s often worth at least contemplating such feedback, if you care about being taken seriously. (Maybe you were intending to joke here, but it still came off as “pretty natural.”)
  - chrismorgan 5y ago
    My use of the word “so” there occurred naturally and I deliberately left it there. However, it’s a different sense of the word “so”: it’s concretely meaning therefore, rather than just being a meaningless filler.
    - messe 5y ago
      > My use of the word “so” there occurred naturally What was unnatural about the original use? English isn't exactly standardized, there are plenty of dialects in which "so" is a common way to start a sentence. It might not be part of what you perceive as the prestige[1] dialect, but it's still natural. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)
      - chrismorgan 5y ago
        Nothing. jchw was just querying whether I’d put it in deliberately. I didn’t; it was the wording that flowed out of my fingers (and then I decided to keep it).
        messe 5y ago
        Ah. That's my bad. Re-reading, and that makes more sense. Apologies for taking such a hostile interpretation.
- nononbody 5y ago
  This whole convo is reminiscent of the "filler world" phenomenon - e.g. especially if I'm feeling relaxed, I'll say "Like" a lot (I lived in CA for a decade, grew up/went to school in Boston) and I've seen that especially people from Texas will get really hung up on it (ok, big state, like CA, I have double digit individual data on this from a skew of states) and I thought about applying an audio plugin to filter out my "likes" as these convos were in a video game. I'm not sure if I'm right about the "Texas doesn't like the CA slang" hypothesis, but I find it fascinating that people get so hung up on it and expect me to adhere to their expectation of how I should behave. I'm just saying "like" instead of "filler word" of "empty air" - the later of which the critics advocated for. I guess they might just be advocating for open air for others, and I'm overthinking the whole thing.
  - andrewzah 5y ago
    That doesn't have anything to do with Texas; like, overusage, like, of "like" is, like, incredibly annoying. Growing up in the midwest, we were taught to not use filler words/sounds like "uhh" or "um" in general.
    - nononbody 5y ago
      I get the mindset, I just don't hold that view. I also judge people that get so hung up on it, just as they judge me for saying it. Functionally, saying "like" when bridging two parallel thoughts seems reasonable enough to me.
- dheera 5y ago
  I think it depends a lot on your target audience. Engineers (at least in my locality in California) tend to prefer direct, casual language and to a great degree even have a grudge against overuse of formal language and formalities. We love things that speak to us in our day to day language. I suppose if you're pitching a product to lawyers, then sure, bring on the notwithstanding hitherto aforementioned gibberish and I'm sure they'll feel right at home thereinafter. :)
emmelaich 5y ago
There was an article in Salon (or was it Slate?) in 1996 on beginning sentences in "So". So, it's interesting it goes that far back. Update: the language log says it goes back before the 1850s. With an early peak around 1870. https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2570 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2570
- kbelder 5y ago
  One usage of it that I find particularly annoying is in answer to questions. For instance: "Where did you go to lunch?" "So, we headed downtown..." I think it's aggravating because it feels evasive, as if the person is pretending they're not answering a question and are instead just starting a new story.
ybbond 5y ago
thank you, great podcast channel and episode you shared there.

chrismorgan 5y ago

Like it or not, perception matters. Take accents as a similar and more obvious case: rural accents will often cause you to be looked down on, and so some find it extremely valuable to deliberately adjust their accent (in some lines of work, it’s pretty much essential to hone a certain accent). So it’s often worth at least contemplating such feedback, if you care about being taken seriously. (But don’t get too hung up on it if you’re just a normal person, either.) Just to emphasise this the more clearly: I’m talking about facts of life here, not ideals.

jchw 5y ago
Well, I think that starting a sentence with “So” is pretty natural and common. Indeed: > So it’s often worth at least contemplating such feedback, if you care about being taken seriously. (Maybe you were intending to joke here, but it still came off as “pretty natural.”)
- chrismorgan 5y ago
  My use of the word “so” there occurred naturally and I deliberately left it there. However, it’s a different sense of the word “so”: it’s concretely meaning therefore, rather than just being a meaningless filler.
  - messe 5y ago
    > My use of the word “so” there occurred naturally What was unnatural about the original use? English isn't exactly standardized, there are plenty of dialects in which "so" is a common way to start a sentence. It might not be part of what you perceive as the prestige[1] dialect, but it's still natural. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prestige_(sociolinguistics)
    - chrismorgan 5y ago
      Nothing. jchw was just querying whether I’d put it in deliberately. I didn’t; it was the wording that flowed out of my fingers (and then I decided to keep it).
      - messe 5y ago
        Ah. That's my bad. Re-reading, and that makes more sense. Apologies for taking such a hostile interpretation.
nononbody 5y ago
This whole convo is reminiscent of the "filler world" phenomenon - e.g. especially if I'm feeling relaxed, I'll say "Like" a lot (I lived in CA for a decade, grew up/went to school in Boston) and I've seen that especially people from Texas will get really hung up on it (ok, big state, like CA, I have double digit individual data on this from a skew of states) and I thought about applying an audio plugin to filter out my "likes" as these convos were in a video game. I'm not sure if I'm right about the "Texas doesn't like the CA slang" hypothesis, but I find it fascinating that people get so hung up on it and expect me to adhere to their expectation of how I should behave. I'm just saying "like" instead of "filler word" of "empty air" - the later of which the critics advocated for. I guess they might just be advocating for open air for others, and I'm overthinking the whole thing.
- andrewzah 5y ago
  That doesn't have anything to do with Texas; like, overusage, like, of "like" is, like, incredibly annoying. Growing up in the midwest, we were taught to not use filler words/sounds like "uhh" or "um" in general.
  - nononbody 5y ago
    I get the mindset, I just don't hold that view. I also judge people that get so hung up on it, just as they judge me for saying it. Functionally, saying "like" when bridging two parallel thoughts seems reasonable enough to me.
dheera 5y ago
I think it depends a lot on your target audience. Engineers (at least in my locality in California) tend to prefer direct, casual language and to a great degree even have a grudge against overuse of formal language and formalities. We love things that speak to us in our day to day language. I suppose if you're pitching a product to lawyers, then sure, bring on the notwithstanding hitherto aforementioned gibberish and I'm sure they'll feel right at home thereinafter. :)

emmelaich 5y ago

There was an article in Salon (or was it Slate?) in 1996 on beginning sentences in "So". So, it's interesting it goes that far back. Update: the language log says it goes back before the 1850s. With an early peak around 1870. https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2570 https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2570

kbelder 5y ago
One usage of it that I find particularly annoying is in answer to questions. For instance: "Where did you go to lunch?" "So, we headed downtown..." I think it's aggravating because it feels evasive, as if the person is pretending they're not answering a question and are instead just starting a new story.

ybbond 5y ago

thank you, great podcast channel and episode you shared there.