5 ms·

This isn't bad advice, it just glosses over the reality for most people applying to jobs where their role isn't in massive demand (i.e. not a SV dev/prod mgr).

This isn't bad advice, it just glosses over the reality for most people applying to jobs where their role isn't in massive demand (i.e. not a SV dev/prod mgr). I routinely screen dozens of resumes a month for a wide variety of semi-technical roles and have been through the ringer on the other side more times than I care to think about. The #1 thing* that will get you to a phone screen is keywords that match what the hiring manager (and usually the screening software) is looking for. Those keywords are usually a combination of technologies, skills, responsibilities, and companies. Yes, where you worked previously is important, and yes that makes it a vicious cycle for a lot of people. The #2 thing that most hiring managers look for is directly relevant experience matching the responsibilities of the role in question. Yes, that sucks because it means if you haven't yet gotten to the level of doing the work in the new role then you're at a disadvantage. The way around this is to ask for responsibilities at your current job that you want to do at your next job. The advice in this article tends to come into play after those two factors are met. *excluding an internal referral.

waheoo 5y ago
Best advice for cv writing: if you're not modifying your cv and cover letter for every job ad, you're doing it wrong. Generic, and vague links to my job ad are the worst cvs to read. I don't know how you can help me. Why does your three years at telecorp relate to my e-commerce business?
- speeder 5y ago
  When you are sending hundreds of resumes, how you manage that? For example I've been looking for a job for eight months now. I did create multiple resumes for different industries (and languages, I have portuguese and english versions) but still, I've been sending resumes in mass, and got invited in these eight months to only two interviews... and one of them was kinda a scam (the guy looked like he wanted an employee, but in fact he was a publisher looking for people that will shoulder most of the risk)
  - hiharryhere 5y ago
    Maybe sending hundreds of resumes on mass is the issue?
  - rhodozelia 5y ago
    Are there really hundreds of different jobs or careers that you want? I have only ever tailored my cv and cover letter for the exact position that I was applying for so that they knew I knew everything about the company and what they were doing and why they needed me to help them solve their problems. When they read my Cv they are like thank god our search is over, this guy can do it. Because it you are going to get the job you can do it and you will do it! It might take some training and some extra hours to get up to speed if your experience isn’t an exact match but you can say that, I’m going the extra mile to make this relationship a success, to make this deal work so that we both get what we want. People want to work with people that are happy to be there. If there are hundreds of different jobs you could have to me that says you don’t really care about any of them. Find the one job you desperately want and go after that.
    - XorNot 5y ago
      When I was first starting out of university, I sent about 40 CVs out, and just started copy+pasting different combinations of paragraphs together for a cover letter. I did eventually get a job out of that, but since then I've never sent a cover letter, and just keep 1 file updated as I hit notable milestones at my current job. Conversely I recently had a position I did actually really want because it aligned very well with my background before going into IT as well. I got through a phone screen and then got rejected after a 2 hour programming test which wasn't complicated enough to actually signal anything. Going after 1 job you really really want is going nowhere.
    - the_only_law 5y ago
      No, quite the opposite in fact. Unfortunately most of the ones I want I likely couldn’t get, so I apply the masses of ones I can. To be fair though, I haven’t sent out hundreds applications in many years. In fact the only time I did was when I was trying to get my first job.
- BeetleB 5y ago
  > Best advice for cv writing: if you're not modifying your cv and cover letter for every job ad, you're doing it wrong. This is an eternal debate. The last time I discussed this on HN, I got people on both sides of the spectrum. On the one end, there are people like me who used to tailor resumes per job, and write cover letters specific to the role/company, who then one day decided to ask whoever responded with feedback on the cover letter, only to always hear: "Oh, you sent a cover letter?" On the other end are HN users who are managers who claim they read them. Feel free to pick which end is closer to reality.
  - toast0 5y ago
    Yeah, I don't think anybody looks at cover letters, but tweaking a resume for the listing still makes sense. And you can just write a short cover if you're sending correspondence with the resume. Hi Person (if you got a person), I heard about your opening for X from Y. As you can see from my attached resume, I've got relevant experience working for company Z (that you might have heard of). Looking forward to blah blah blah Sincerely me phone number email
    - BeetleB 5y ago
      > Yeah, I don't think anybody looks at cover letters Oh, you should see the negative responses I got when I posted that the last time on HN. Some people are absolutely pro-cover letters. One interesting theme in some of the responses, though was: "I always read cover letters if present, but it just occurred to me that I disqualify candidates based on the content of their cover letter, so in some cases those that didn't submit a cover letter are at an advantage." Essentially, the more you talk, the easier it is for people to rule you out. So a cover letter could give you an advantage over those who don't supply one, but it also could disadvantage you. On the whole, I take it as a net neutral at best, and so why spend the time?
  - bbojan 5y ago
    I'm a hiring manager and I always read cover letters. For me, they are your opportunity to clarify some things in your resume and point how relevant they are to the position you're applying for. This is actually a win for the candidate, as they don't need to modify their resume for each employer (which is more work). E.g. "Although you use Angular 11 in your stack, I believe my 5 years of experience with Angular.js and 3 years of experience with React will allow me to ramp up quickly." or "Having worked developing CRM systems for 5 years at company XYZ, I believe I would be of great value for this project." While I wouldn't disqualify a candidate for not having a cover letter, I would wonder why they wouldn't use this tool that increases their chances of getting hired.
- Der_Einzige 5y ago
  Nope, and this advice is responsible for untold misery among people who spend all of their time perfecting 50 job applications when they could have spent all that time simply shotgunning thousands of applications out. I have seen so many of my friends take your "advice" and then end up without internships or jobs for long periods because they couldn't imagine that getting a job is a "numbers game" like I do. Your advice makes sense for people who already have a job who want a very specific next job. Outside of that, please shove it somewhere the light doesn't shine because people who follow it are knee-capping themselves in the modern jobs market.

waheoo 5y ago

Best advice for cv writing: if you're not modifying your cv and cover letter for every job ad, you're doing it wrong. Generic, and vague links to my job ad are the worst cvs to read. I don't know how you can help me. Why does your three years at telecorp relate to my e-commerce business?

speeder 5y ago
When you are sending hundreds of resumes, how you manage that? For example I've been looking for a job for eight months now. I did create multiple resumes for different industries (and languages, I have portuguese and english versions) but still, I've been sending resumes in mass, and got invited in these eight months to only two interviews... and one of them was kinda a scam (the guy looked like he wanted an employee, but in fact he was a publisher looking for people that will shoulder most of the risk)
- hiharryhere 5y ago
  Maybe sending hundreds of resumes on mass is the issue?
- rhodozelia 5y ago
  Are there really hundreds of different jobs or careers that you want? I have only ever tailored my cv and cover letter for the exact position that I was applying for so that they knew I knew everything about the company and what they were doing and why they needed me to help them solve their problems. When they read my Cv they are like thank god our search is over, this guy can do it. Because it you are going to get the job you can do it and you will do it! It might take some training and some extra hours to get up to speed if your experience isn’t an exact match but you can say that, I’m going the extra mile to make this relationship a success, to make this deal work so that we both get what we want. People want to work with people that are happy to be there. If there are hundreds of different jobs you could have to me that says you don’t really care about any of them. Find the one job you desperately want and go after that.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    When I was first starting out of university, I sent about 40 CVs out, and just started copy+pasting different combinations of paragraphs together for a cover letter. I did eventually get a job out of that, but since then I've never sent a cover letter, and just keep 1 file updated as I hit notable milestones at my current job. Conversely I recently had a position I did actually really want because it aligned very well with my background before going into IT as well. I got through a phone screen and then got rejected after a 2 hour programming test which wasn't complicated enough to actually signal anything. Going after 1 job you really really want is going nowhere.
  - the_only_law 5y ago
    No, quite the opposite in fact. Unfortunately most of the ones I want I likely couldn’t get, so I apply the masses of ones I can. To be fair though, I haven’t sent out hundreds applications in many years. In fact the only time I did was when I was trying to get my first job.
BeetleB 5y ago
> Best advice for cv writing: if you're not modifying your cv and cover letter for every job ad, you're doing it wrong. This is an eternal debate. The last time I discussed this on HN, I got people on both sides of the spectrum. On the one end, there are people like me who used to tailor resumes per job, and write cover letters specific to the role/company, who then one day decided to ask whoever responded with feedback on the cover letter, only to always hear: "Oh, you sent a cover letter?" On the other end are HN users who are managers who claim they read them. Feel free to pick which end is closer to reality.
- toast0 5y ago
  Yeah, I don't think anybody looks at cover letters, but tweaking a resume for the listing still makes sense. And you can just write a short cover if you're sending correspondence with the resume. Hi Person (if you got a person), I heard about your opening for X from Y. As you can see from my attached resume, I've got relevant experience working for company Z (that you might have heard of). Looking forward to blah blah blah Sincerely me phone number email
  - BeetleB 5y ago
    > Yeah, I don't think anybody looks at cover letters Oh, you should see the negative responses I got when I posted that the last time on HN. Some people are absolutely pro-cover letters. One interesting theme in some of the responses, though was: "I always read cover letters if present, but it just occurred to me that I disqualify candidates based on the content of their cover letter, so in some cases those that didn't submit a cover letter are at an advantage." Essentially, the more you talk, the easier it is for people to rule you out. So a cover letter could give you an advantage over those who don't supply one, but it also could disadvantage you. On the whole, I take it as a net neutral at best, and so why spend the time?
- bbojan 5y ago
  I'm a hiring manager and I always read cover letters. For me, they are your opportunity to clarify some things in your resume and point how relevant they are to the position you're applying for. This is actually a win for the candidate, as they don't need to modify their resume for each employer (which is more work). E.g. "Although you use Angular 11 in your stack, I believe my 5 years of experience with Angular.js and 3 years of experience with React will allow me to ramp up quickly." or "Having worked developing CRM systems for 5 years at company XYZ, I believe I would be of great value for this project." While I wouldn't disqualify a candidate for not having a cover letter, I would wonder why they wouldn't use this tool that increases their chances of getting hired.
Der_Einzige 5y ago
Nope, and this advice is responsible for untold misery among people who spend all of their time perfecting 50 job applications when they could have spent all that time simply shotgunning thousands of applications out. I have seen so many of my friends take your "advice" and then end up without internships or jobs for long periods because they couldn't imagine that getting a job is a "numbers game" like I do. Your advice makes sense for people who already have a job who want a very specific next job. Outside of that, please shove it somewhere the light doesn't shine because people who follow it are knee-capping themselves in the modern jobs market.