7 ms·

Tesla Model 3 Owners Are the Happiest Car Owners, According to Consumer Reports

73 points by danboarder 5y ago

gautamcgoel 5y ago
I think this is much more an issue of correlation than causation.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- tarr11 5y ago
  Can you explain? Happy people are more likely to buy Tesla?
  - ampdepolymerase 5y ago
    Less things to be unhappy about when you are well off.
  - ncallaway 5y ago
    Sure: * People with more money are more likely to buy a Tesla * People with more money are more likely to be happy
    - tuckerman 5y ago
      I'm not sure general happiness => high customer satisfaction ratings on consumer reports. Also, while I believe that money leads to happier people, I'd imagine people with who spend more money on a car are likely to be more demanding/particular about they want out of that car (e.g. I was very forgiving with issues with my used mini cooper but I get pretty annoyed at most issues with my Model S).
  - koolba 5y ago
    From my own anecdata, the people buying Teslas are all well to do young professionals that I’d expect to be generally happy because they’re missing one of the biggest causes of life stress (financial).
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  100% agree, you can look at the demographics of Tesla owners, in one study they have the highest average credit score for approved auto loan [1] and they have over 100k+$ yearly incomes[2]. Presumably, if you're in that category, you're generally happier with life. 1: https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/car-makes-highest-average-credit-score/#Keytakeaways https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/car-makes-highest-average-c... 2: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/01/what-do-we-know-about-tesla-owners/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/01/what-do-we-know-about-t...
  - mxcrossb 5y ago
    The article isn’t saying they’re happier people… > Tesla Models X, S, and 3 all have high customer satisfaction ratings on Consumer Reports, with the Model 3 earning a CR Recommended label.
  - seattle_spring 5y ago
    I mean... You'd have to be fantastically irresponsible to buy a $40k+ car on an income of less than $100k.
    - bradlys 5y ago
      This is normal for much of the US.
- teraflop 5y ago
  This may well be true, even if you don't assume that Tesla owners are "smug" as some commenters are doing. I've often thought that this is a major inherent problem with trying to estimate the "quality" of a product or service by taking the average of user reviews. If a product has high ratings, does that mean it's actually better than the alternatives, or does it mean it has flaws that cause the more discerning and critical consumers to gravitate to other options? My understanding is recommendation systems can attempt to model and compensate for such biases. (At least, I recall seeing descriptions of how this was done way back in the Netflix Prize days.) But recommendation systems usually have their own issues with transparency and trustworthiness. What I frequently want is the answer to a very simple question: of people who have tried both of two options I'm considering, what fraction prefer one over the other?
- kristopolous 5y ago
  I have one for work (I do cartech related stuff) so it just kinda is what I need to drive now. There's very few people who have the same kind of non-bias as I do here but then again my single opinion is merely anecdotal. Given that sandwich, it's in the same class as an iPhone and beats headphones. A non-flattering description would be "tinsel and tack parading as luxury and class" but honestly, that was my impression of the porsche boxster and bentley continental as well. My orientation for luxury is certainly non-existent. I feel such "touches" are inconvenient and grandiose. But like with beats headphones or to a lesser extent, the iphone, this acts as a filter. This product (model 3) isn't for me and I'm fine with hyundai's ioniq or kona ev. So yes, I think it's more a personality type that the car attracts than anything else. But again, sample size of 1 here. I'd expect the same kind of happiness response from Ford F-350 owners.
cma 5y ago
Perhaps a side-effect of the same delusion that can fuel the sunk cost fallacy. Once you have paid $10,000 for full self-driving, you have to tell yourself it was worth it and it is going to be great, and some kind of halo effect bleeds into enjoyment of the car? This is at least part of how it works when people make religious donations for promise of material reward in situations like prosperity preaching, or when they are led to believe their donation will cure a grave illness in the family. The connections to prosperity preaching go even further as FSD was sold as the feature that would make Teslas the first ever appreciating mass-market car, bringing in great fortunes for the owners who had enough faith (claims with a strong indication of a 10-20X return on the FSD investment by the time the robotaxi network was to go online in 2020). I may be wrong on this, but I think the income from it is also tax-shielded like a church, as long as they never deliver it never gets recognized and then never gets taxed. The head Pastor/Technoking can then put the $10,000 payments into Dogecoin investments if he wants, though Tesla would have to pay taxes on any realized gains there.
- walrus01 5y ago
  People are down voting you for some reason, but you're not wrong, but I also think the part about driving a sunk cost fallacy is not specific to Teslas. I know probably at least seven people who bought expensive two-seat performance cars that run on premium fuel and use very expensive tires that wear out quickly, in addition to other costly maintenance items, and they absolutely are the definition of a sunk cost fallacy. The majority of the people I know with such cars that have found them to be expensive and impractical are unwilling or unable to sell them because they don't want to admit to themselves that buying the thing in the first place might have been a mistake. They all ended up buying another much more practical car (corolla, civic, etc) and using that for most daily purposes. My opinion is that this phenomenon can be seen with almost any very expensive status symbol car. Not just Teslas. Probably a $120k model S is a better example than a $35-45k model 3, but even so...
  - johnisgood 5y ago
    Yeah I think the OP is right, I interpreted it to be the choice-supportive bias, which is pretty much a known bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias. > Choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is the tendency to retroactively ascribe positive attributes to an option one has selected and/or to demote the forgone options.[1] It is part of cognitive science, and is a distinct cognitive bias that occurs once a decision is made. For example, if a person chooses option A instead of option B, they are likely to ignore or downplay the faults of option A while amplifying or ascribing new negative faults to option B. As you said, it is not limited to Teslas, of course.
Black101 5y ago
They are if they don't live in an apartment, etc... It is too early for widespread adoption... cost being the first reason and charging issues probably being the second. I guess they could do that NIO is doing and allow 5-minute battery swap.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  Tesla is already sold out of Q2 Y and 3 production, even with S and X production at zero. "Too early for widespread adoption" is a punchline. https://insideevs.com/news/505768/tesla-demand-q2-sold-out/ https://insideevs.com/news/505768/tesla-demand-q2-sold-out/
  - Black101 5y ago
    being sold out doesn't mean much when they produce such a low number when compared to other companies? ... Also, I'm not betting against electric vehicles but so many other companies are coming in the market very quickly.
    - toomuchtodo 5y ago
      They increase production rate ~100% YOY, and delivered ~500k vehicles last year. Berlin GF4 and Austin GF5 go live by the end of the year, Fremont is expanding. Tesla is not without substantial fault, just not something I'd bet against. The markets will stay hopeful longer than one can remain solvent and snarky. The market is proven (see: this thread's title). People on HN complain (quality, autopilot, musk, cost, etc) while people with their wallets open (see sold out comment above) purchase Teslas even with the (well documented) issues the vehicles have.
      - Black101 5y ago
        Also, as of 2021, Consumer Reports rates the Model 3 like this: https://i.imgur.com/En8Yqv4.png https://i.imgur.com/En8Yqv4.png For your comment below "folks are buying enough Teslas to support the production capacity of Tesla" ... that only means that Tesla is not producing more then what they can sell? (Note: I posted my reply above because HN/dang won't let me post a reply below)
1cvmask 5y ago
Maybe there is some truth to the South Park episode Smug Alert! on owning the holier than thou car and being smug about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert!
Black101 5y ago
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/harley-davidson-launches-all-electric-motorcycle-brand-livewire-2021-05-10/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/harley...
gibolt 5y ago
The comments here are extremely negative... Seems that no one can imagine an owner experience that triumphs their <favorite_brand> in nearly every way. Tesla may not be for everyone, but those who own one, tend to love the hell out of them.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  Personal opinion, but my only gripe with Tesla is their low build quality (or at least, last time I checked one out), if I'm going to shell out that much money, I'd rather add a little extra and go with Porsche. But, I'm pretty happy with what they've done for the EV industry as a whole.
  - darknavi 5y ago
    I'd say the production quality has gone up but the material quality has pretty much stayed the same. The interiors are just not very premium. The new S/X have some more modern niceties, but even they have very slimmed down interiors.
  - minhazm 5y ago
    The build quality is fine. Tesla gets crazy press and gets extra scrutiny whereas others get a pass at this stuff. Also I don’t why you’re comparing it to a Porsche when this article is about Model 3. There’s no Porsche you can buy for $40k. If you’re comparing it to a Model S or X, they don’t really have the same build quality issues that came up for Model 3 and Y since they’re made at much lower volume and cost much more.
  - et2o 5y ago
    A comparable Porsche to any of the Tesla models is a lot more though. Probably 2x as much, if you compare the Taycan to the Model S.
    - rawtxapp 5y ago
      The new Taycan base model is about 80k$ which is roughly 10k more than an S model.
djanogo 5y ago
Porsche GT3 owners are known to be very happy and financially successful also.
- merth 5y ago
  If you are poor, just buy a GT3. that will lead financial success /s
- epistasis 5y ago
  Base level new Porsche GT3: $146k [1] Base level Model 3: $34k (with tax rebate) [2] Average sale price of a new car: $39k [3] Not sure what point you are trying to make here. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-2022-porsche-911-gt3-costs-dollar16000-more-than-the-old-one/ar-BB1f8QSL https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-2022-porsche... [2] https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview [3] https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-average-price-for-a-new-car/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-aver...
  - agogdog 5y ago
    What's the median sale price of a new car... because I suspect $39k is pulled up quite a lot from the high end of the market? I make a decent salary and $39k is like... twice the amount I'd pay for any car, ever.
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    > Average sale price of a new car: $39k [3] From your third page, https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-average-price-for-a-new-car/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-aver..., the average price of a Hybrid/alternative energy car is arguably more relevant than comparing to all new cars. The avg price of a new of Hybrid/alternative energy car is $28k not $39k.
    - epistasis 5y ago
      And the average EV has an average sale price of $42k, why would you choose hybrid over that? I would agree that a hybrid is a far better comparison than a Porsche GT3, glad you do too. That was kind of the point of my comment...
franklyt 5y ago
Oftentimes, people will say correlation does not imply causation, and this is mathematically true (imply means something different in regular parlance, and correlation can very well imply causation in that usage). That being said, this is probably a case of putting the cart before the horse.
darknavi 5y ago
I wonder how much of this is "Baby's first EV". My Model 3 was my first EV and while I like the Tesla features a lot, a huge portion of the love is being able charge at home and never go to a gas station (except for the occasion propane refill). Once you get used to driving an EV (very smooth acceleration, silent, etc.) driving a gas car as a commuter is a bit less appealing.
- irrational 5y ago
  Commuter? What is this 2019?
  - darknavi 5y ago
    Back in my day I had to drive to work... and back!
    - irrational 5y ago
      And we liked it! (not really)
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      and... uphill in the snow! both ways!
- epistasis 5y ago
  It's my second EV. I got a BMW m235i in between my first EV and my Model 3, because my lease on the EV was up, I loved the performance of the EV, and wanted some range until I could buy a Model 3. I'm super concerned about climate, but don't drive much and thought that I could justify a 20-25mpg vehicle for a few short years... The Model 3 is by far the best car I've had. Had multiple Pruises, a boat of a Chevy Impala, and driven lots of rental cars when on trips to places without public transit. And despite all this, I'm still slightly ashamed to say it's my favorite car, because I'm no fan of Musk. Whatever team at Tesla is building this is great, but I have a feeling that it has very little to do with the singular person who wants to take credit...
blhack 5y ago
It is truly strange how much hate Tesla seems to get from people. I recently bought a model Y. It is not an exaggeration to say that it is the best car I have ever driven, or even been inside of. 1) It's fast (very fast). 2) It looks great. 3) The in vehicle display looks fantastic, and is extremely responsive. It feels like the difference between using an iPad or using a cheap ($50) android tablet from aliexpress. 4) The in vehicle speech commands are excellent. 5) The autopilot is excellent. 6) The mobile app is excellent. If you are seriously confused as to why Tesla owners are so fanatical about their cars: go drive one. It shouldn't surprise people that these vehicles are sold out for the near future. They're actually just that good.
- dap 5y ago
  I have wondered a lot, though: does that mean other people would love it too? Could it be that it's somewhat unusual (it is), and that its unique qualities are super clear to everyone, and so the people who buy it love it, and the people who choose not to buy it would indeed hate it? (I've driven one for about 10 minutes. It was fine, and maybe I'd love it if I drove it longer. Lack of tactile controls for radio and AC are a big bummer, though.) (edited)
  - blhack 5y ago
    I seem to get a ton of compliments on it, at least (although that is likely more about the appearance than anything). And my friends who have ridden with me also seem to love it. Hmm, re: tactile controls: these at least for me are replaced by the steering wheel controls and voice commands.
    - Dah00n 5y ago
      >voice commands Voice commands are worse for traffic safety than driving on the legal drink-drive limit: https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-pages/end-customer-campaigns/infotainment# https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-pages/end-customer-cam... https://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/10/new-hands-free-technologies-pose-hidden-dangers-for-drivers/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/10/new-hands-free-technologies...
TheBolivianNavy 5y ago
I've owned a Model 3 for over a year. It's ok. I had a rough idea of what I was getting into but the amount of "software" problems I've run into... Every software update breaks something. The rear view camera sometimes just blacks out, requiring a soft reboot of the car. Side cameras will just stop working in the middle of a drive. The radio sometimes doesn't work. Requires soft reboot. Speaker volume levels randomly maxing out. Phantom breaking on empty highway on a perfectly clear day. Trunk randomly opening in the middle of the night (seriously, multiple times). It's in a garage but wtf Charger door cycling non-stop with nothing connected. Fix? Soft reboot. Every time I've had to contact Tesla for anything (buying the car/service issues/wall charger issues) the people have been friendly but unbelievably disorganized. It's a fun car to drive but there are some serious issues.
- darknavi 5y ago
  One thing that fixed a lot of the "need a reboot" issues I was having was turning off Sentry mode at home. This allows the car to actually "deep sleep" where as before my car was humming along 24/7. Maybe it's a placebo, but it seemed to help!
  - DennisP 5y ago
    So the car needs sleep? Their AI might be further along than we realize.
  - hooloovoo_zoo 5y ago
    I wish sentry mode didn't exist; the flashing headlights are a nuisance feature.
    - darknavi 5y ago
      As an owner I love Sentry mode (especially if you set up some automations to offload it and merge the video streams). I wish the blinking lights was configurable though.
- mysterydip 5y ago
nikolay 5y ago
Correlation is not causation.
- URSpider94 5y ago
  It is when the actual story is about them being the happiest with the car they own, not the happiest people in general.
  - nikolay 5y ago
    So, you think you will be happy with your car if you're unhappy in life?!
nikolay 5y ago
Happier than even Maybach owners?
emodendroket 5y ago
Given the missionary zeal of a lot of Tesla owners I wonder if that speaks to the quality of the cars or the type of people who buy them.
SKILNER 5y ago
I have a Model 3 after maybe 7-8 new Beemers and Lexuses over the years. The Model 3 is easily my favorite car. Everything else seems like a heavy, belching dinosaur. I don't say that so much from an eco POV, as the lightness of touch of stomping on the pedal with no noise, instant acceleration, no gear changes, just an unrelenting push back into your seat - it's just "lighter" and effortless. (I know it weighs a lot, that's not my point) The software glitches are a nuisance at times, but how many OS releases behind do you keep your phone and PCs?
- oneplane 5y ago
  You drive a beamer? That seems odd (image search it). Perhaps it's that thing there the local language mistranslates something. Regarding the 'everything else seems heavy'-feeling: that is exactly what it feels like to me as well. Not in some absolute term of 'therefore it is bad' but the difference is quite present. With a lot of cars it seems like driving it is an effort, and it is presented as being an effort and almost praised as a universally positive property of the car. At the same time it's very weird to see the polarisation within the world of car users as if you can't have both. If I were to drive to get some job done, I really don't want to drive 'with effort' or have a car that 'shows some effort'. I want to get from A to B and do the thing I wanted to do, not 'work the car'. That is a strange realisation when you drive a lot of previous-generation cars and don't have an issue with that right up until the moment you get the ease of an EV that just 'does the thing'.
pmarreck 5y ago
Unsurprised Tesla owner here. Tesla made driving fun again.
- Corrado 5y ago
  I concur. After a lifetime of Audi, Honda, and VW cars I can honestly say that my Model Y has made driving fun again. I actually look for reasons to drive now. If friends and I are going out, I'll offer to drive everyone. Need something at the store? I'll get it! It's actually kind of ridiculous that pleasure I get from driving now.
  - pmarreck 5y ago
    I have a friend in town who just scored a Model Y and he loves it. His son was begging for one for years now lol. The kids know what's up!
kgc 5y ago
Now the only question is if car owners are happier than non car owners.
tobych 5y ago
The title of the OP seems pretty misleading. Neither the Consumer Reports article the author refers to, or the "owner satisfaction survey" that this in turn refers to, mention "happiness". The survey and the article seem to be about satisfaction with the car itself, rather than the owner's happiness in any general sense. Which is what I and, it seems from other comments, others have interpreted the title as. Might be worth changing the title of ths post, too.
- mxcrossb 5y ago
  I am in favor of the current title as it makes it extremely obvious how few HN users actually read an article before commenting.
the__alchemist 5y ago
Are Teslas still noisy on the highway? (due to letting in more road noise than other cars) Dealbreaker for me.
- darknavi 5y ago
  I wouldn't call my Model 3 noisier than other cars, but at highway speeds it certainly isn't quieter. They need to invest in some ANC that other brands are brining on.
- URSpider94 5y ago
  No, they aren’t still noisy, and in fact they never have been. Their noise levels are quite similar to other cars. People PERCEIVE them as being loud because there’s no engine noise blended in with the tire and wind noise, and because they are practically silent at low speed. If you really want a quieter car, the Model S is rated as one of the quietest cars on the road.
hbarka 5y ago
I understand the derision here when it comes to Tesla because of a figure like Elon Musk. I can attest to it. I used to fanboy Musk but now I believe Tesla succeeds in spite of Musk. There have been too many promises from him not meeting expectations. He also seems pretty ruthless in his leadership of the organization. Just look at the history of exodus. In spite of this, I can genuinely say that out of all the cars I have driven, there is a certain joy in the driving experience of an electric car and Tesla cars without any hype are the ones offering performance, range, and updated software. It’s too bad that the other car companies are just now getting to par with Tesla’s specs. The Model 3 is also relatively priced by the way.
kar1181 5y ago
I’ve had my model 3 since Jan and like most, it’s had it’s share of issues. It is also, certainly, the least well built car I’ve ever owned. But gosh I love driving it. It’s a pleasure. I have driven a lot of the current crop of competing BEVs and they just aren’t as fun.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jchw 5y ago
Tesla certainly has its issues to resolve, but among the biggest problem for me with buying a Tesla is that it represents the gradual but seemingly unstoppable transition of car ownership becoming very much less “ownership,” the way that had happened with software and computers in general. The actual QC issues do seem somewhat serious, but having been inside of a Model X I can 100% understand why someone would be more than happy to deal with an abnormal amount of service issues in exchange for the experience; to this day I would not be surprised if there are no strong direct competitors. Last I looked, most electric cars focused on budget, and I’ve heard newer more luxury focused options still come up a bit short. I’m not a car person. I have only been in a few “luxury” cars. The Tesla was definitely the defining, “OK, I understand why people enjoy this” moment for me. The amount of torque is terrifying, and it doesn’t really feel like it attempts to emulate the limitations of a gas car in any way. It feels very futuristic. Compared to my Civic, it’s obviously a hell of a time. But there are some points worth noting. The Sensing feature on the Civic sounds like a nice additional safety feature, but it is pretty abysmal. Of course you wouldn’t expect it to be anything like Waymo Driver or Tesla Autopilot, but even as a safety feature its value is tenuous, very occasionally doing things that could be dangerous (like automatically firing the brakes during a sharp turn...) And the Civic is a well-respected line in terms of being cheap and fairly reliable from what I understand, but there were a litany of hardware and software QC issues in at least the 2016-2018 range. Again, you can’t really compare these two vehicles. But the Civic is a vehicle you buy because it’s a safe choice, yet you could easily end up spending thousands to fix climate control components that should’ve been recalled out-of-warranty, or have issues with software-controlled brakes failing (not in a safety-critical way to the best of my knowledge, but there are some bugs, which makes you feel a bit uneasy...) I feel like Tesla owners know what they’re getting into: it’s buggy, it might even be insecure, and there are even ethics issues at hand, but it’s luxurious and it feels like the future. Not too many people sell the future in entrenched industries. A Tesla is rare, and I think that is probably why it generates so much hype... I could probably afford to buy a Tesla. However, I’ll pass. I would like an electric vehicle, but I am just going to hope that there’s an option more down my alley in the future. Maybe there will be an option where you actually own the car you buy, even! Let’s all keep donating to Louis Rossman, on that note...
Dah00n 5y ago
In the US. 100% of consumer reports I have seen in Europe doesn't have Tesla in top 3. It's mostly BMW and Toyota at #1. Edit: Here's a Danish one (linked directly to a picture since most won't understand the article). The article mentions that Tesla is the worst rated car when asking people about the dealer and repair. https://fdm.dk/sites/default/files/styles/ckeditor_textwidth_medium/public/inline-images/Autoindex2020.jpg https://fdm.dk/sites/default/files/styles/ckeditor_textwidth...
alkonaut 5y ago
My guess: Tesla can sell cars that might not be top quality because a) first time EV owners are a huge chunk of owners and they get the first time EV experience. Second, in the US Tesla buyers are also still predominantly new car buyers and their sales experience is contrasted to the traditional US dealership sales experience which sounds awful (much of the rest of the world has had showroom + configurators for decades). A fair comparison would be comparing Tesla owners who have driven other EVs and excluding the US. Everything else is just including ICE to EV or comparing Tesla sales process to US traditional car sales.
keb_ 5y ago
Been driving a Honda Civic 2005 since high school, still runs strong. I am convinced I am the happiest car owner ever.
Shadonototro 5y ago
$TSLA having a bad ~day~ ~week~ ~month~ quarter? they have to find new exciting things to write, c'mon guys

73 points by danboarder 5y ago

gautamcgoel 5y ago

I think this is much more an issue of correlation than causation.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
tarr11 5y ago
Can you explain? Happy people are more likely to buy Tesla?
- ampdepolymerase 5y ago
  Less things to be unhappy about when you are well off.
- ncallaway 5y ago
  Sure: * People with more money are more likely to buy a Tesla * People with more money are more likely to be happy
  - tuckerman 5y ago
    I'm not sure general happiness => high customer satisfaction ratings on consumer reports. Also, while I believe that money leads to happier people, I'd imagine people with who spend more money on a car are likely to be more demanding/particular about they want out of that car (e.g. I was very forgiving with issues with my used mini cooper but I get pretty annoyed at most issues with my Model S).
- koolba 5y ago
  From my own anecdata, the people buying Teslas are all well to do young professionals that I’d expect to be generally happy because they’re missing one of the biggest causes of life stress (financial).
rawtxapp 5y ago
100% agree, you can look at the demographics of Tesla owners, in one study they have the highest average credit score for approved auto loan [1] and they have over 100k+$ yearly incomes[2]. Presumably, if you're in that category, you're generally happier with life. 1: https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/car-makes-highest-average-credit-score/#Keytakeaways https://www.lendingtree.com/auto/car-makes-highest-average-c... 2: https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/01/what-do-we-know-about-tesla-owners/ https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/01/what-do-we-know-about-t...
- mxcrossb 5y ago
  The article isn’t saying they’re happier people… > Tesla Models X, S, and 3 all have high customer satisfaction ratings on Consumer Reports, with the Model 3 earning a CR Recommended label.
- seattle_spring 5y ago
  I mean... You'd have to be fantastically irresponsible to buy a $40k+ car on an income of less than $100k.
  - bradlys 5y ago
    This is normal for much of the US.
teraflop 5y ago
This may well be true, even if you don't assume that Tesla owners are "smug" as some commenters are doing. I've often thought that this is a major inherent problem with trying to estimate the "quality" of a product or service by taking the average of user reviews. If a product has high ratings, does that mean it's actually better than the alternatives, or does it mean it has flaws that cause the more discerning and critical consumers to gravitate to other options? My understanding is recommendation systems can attempt to model and compensate for such biases. (At least, I recall seeing descriptions of how this was done way back in the Netflix Prize days.) But recommendation systems usually have their own issues with transparency and trustworthiness. What I frequently want is the answer to a very simple question: of people who have tried both of two options I'm considering, what fraction prefer one over the other?
kristopolous 5y ago
I have one for work (I do cartech related stuff) so it just kinda is what I need to drive now. There's very few people who have the same kind of non-bias as I do here but then again my single opinion is merely anecdotal. Given that sandwich, it's in the same class as an iPhone and beats headphones. A non-flattering description would be "tinsel and tack parading as luxury and class" but honestly, that was my impression of the porsche boxster and bentley continental as well. My orientation for luxury is certainly non-existent. I feel such "touches" are inconvenient and grandiose. But like with beats headphones or to a lesser extent, the iphone, this acts as a filter. This product (model 3) isn't for me and I'm fine with hyundai's ioniq or kona ev. So yes, I think it's more a personality type that the car attracts than anything else. But again, sample size of 1 here. I'd expect the same kind of happiness response from Ford F-350 owners.

cma 5y ago

Perhaps a side-effect of the same delusion that can fuel the sunk cost fallacy. Once you have paid $10,000 for full self-driving, you have to tell yourself it was worth it and it is going to be great, and some kind of halo effect bleeds into enjoyment of the car? This is at least part of how it works when people make religious donations for promise of material reward in situations like prosperity preaching, or when they are led to believe their donation will cure a grave illness in the family. The connections to prosperity preaching go even further as FSD was sold as the feature that would make Teslas the first ever appreciating mass-market car, bringing in great fortunes for the owners who had enough faith (claims with a strong indication of a 10-20X return on the FSD investment by the time the robotaxi network was to go online in 2020). I may be wrong on this, but I think the income from it is also tax-shielded like a church, as long as they never deliver it never gets recognized and then never gets taxed. The head Pastor/Technoking can then put the $10,000 payments into Dogecoin investments if he wants, though Tesla would have to pay taxes on any realized gains there.

walrus01 5y ago
People are down voting you for some reason, but you're not wrong, but I also think the part about driving a sunk cost fallacy is not specific to Teslas. I know probably at least seven people who bought expensive two-seat performance cars that run on premium fuel and use very expensive tires that wear out quickly, in addition to other costly maintenance items, and they absolutely are the definition of a sunk cost fallacy. The majority of the people I know with such cars that have found them to be expensive and impractical are unwilling or unable to sell them because they don't want to admit to themselves that buying the thing in the first place might have been a mistake. They all ended up buying another much more practical car (corolla, civic, etc) and using that for most daily purposes. My opinion is that this phenomenon can be seen with almost any very expensive status symbol car. Not just Teslas. Probably a $120k model S is a better example than a $35-45k model 3, but even so...
- johnisgood 5y ago
  Yeah I think the OP is right, I interpreted it to be the choice-supportive bias, which is pretty much a known bias: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias. > Choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is the tendency to retroactively ascribe positive attributes to an option one has selected and/or to demote the forgone options.[1] It is part of cognitive science, and is a distinct cognitive bias that occurs once a decision is made. For example, if a person chooses option A instead of option B, they are likely to ignore or downplay the faults of option A while amplifying or ascribing new negative faults to option B. As you said, it is not limited to Teslas, of course.

Black101 5y ago

They are if they don't live in an apartment, etc... It is too early for widespread adoption... cost being the first reason and charging issues probably being the second. I guess they could do that NIO is doing and allow 5-minute battery swap.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
Tesla is already sold out of Q2 Y and 3 production, even with S and X production at zero. "Too early for widespread adoption" is a punchline. https://insideevs.com/news/505768/tesla-demand-q2-sold-out/ https://insideevs.com/news/505768/tesla-demand-q2-sold-out/
- Black101 5y ago
  being sold out doesn't mean much when they produce such a low number when compared to other companies? ... Also, I'm not betting against electric vehicles but so many other companies are coming in the market very quickly.
  - toomuchtodo 5y ago
    They increase production rate ~100% YOY, and delivered ~500k vehicles last year. Berlin GF4 and Austin GF5 go live by the end of the year, Fremont is expanding. Tesla is not without substantial fault, just not something I'd bet against. The markets will stay hopeful longer than one can remain solvent and snarky. The market is proven (see: this thread's title). People on HN complain (quality, autopilot, musk, cost, etc) while people with their wallets open (see sold out comment above) purchase Teslas even with the (well documented) issues the vehicles have.
    - Black101 5y ago
      Also, as of 2021, Consumer Reports rates the Model 3 like this: https://i.imgur.com/En8Yqv4.png https://i.imgur.com/En8Yqv4.png For your comment below "folks are buying enough Teslas to support the production capacity of Tesla" ... that only means that Tesla is not producing more then what they can sell? (Note: I posted my reply above because HN/dang won't let me post a reply below)

1cvmask 5y ago

Maybe there is some truth to the South Park episode Smug Alert! on owning the holier than thou car and being smug about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smug_Alert!

Black101 5y ago

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/harley-davidson-launches-all-electric-motorcycle-brand-livewire-2021-05-10/ https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/harley...

gibolt 5y ago

The comments here are extremely negative... Seems that no one can imagine an owner experience that triumphs their <favorite_brand> in nearly every way. Tesla may not be for everyone, but those who own one, tend to love the hell out of them.

rawtxapp 5y ago
Personal opinion, but my only gripe with Tesla is their low build quality (or at least, last time I checked one out), if I'm going to shell out that much money, I'd rather add a little extra and go with Porsche. But, I'm pretty happy with what they've done for the EV industry as a whole.
- darknavi 5y ago
  I'd say the production quality has gone up but the material quality has pretty much stayed the same. The interiors are just not very premium. The new S/X have some more modern niceties, but even they have very slimmed down interiors.
- minhazm 5y ago
  The build quality is fine. Tesla gets crazy press and gets extra scrutiny whereas others get a pass at this stuff. Also I don’t why you’re comparing it to a Porsche when this article is about Model 3. There’s no Porsche you can buy for $40k. If you’re comparing it to a Model S or X, they don’t really have the same build quality issues that came up for Model 3 and Y since they’re made at much lower volume and cost much more.
- et2o 5y ago
  A comparable Porsche to any of the Tesla models is a lot more though. Probably 2x as much, if you compare the Taycan to the Model S.
  - rawtxapp 5y ago
    The new Taycan base model is about 80k$ which is roughly 10k more than an S model.

djanogo 5y ago

Porsche GT3 owners are known to be very happy and financially successful also.

merth 5y ago
If you are poor, just buy a GT3. that will lead financial success /s
epistasis 5y ago
Base level new Porsche GT3: $146k [1] Base level Model 3: $34k (with tax rebate) [2] Average sale price of a new car: $39k [3] Not sure what point you are trying to make here. [1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-2022-porsche-911-gt3-costs-dollar16000-more-than-the-old-one/ar-BB1f8QSL https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/enthusiasts/the-2022-porsche... [2] https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#overview [3] https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-average-price-for-a-new-car/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-aver...
- agogdog 5y ago
  What's the median sale price of a new car... because I suspect $39k is pulled up quite a lot from the high end of the market? I make a decent salary and $39k is like... twice the amount I'd pay for any car, ever.
- IncRnd 5y ago
  > Average sale price of a new car: $39k [3] From your third page, https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-average-price-for-a-new-car/ https://www.experian.com/blogs/ask-experian/what-is-the-aver..., the average price of a Hybrid/alternative energy car is arguably more relevant than comparing to all new cars. The avg price of a new of Hybrid/alternative energy car is $28k not $39k.
  - epistasis 5y ago
    And the average EV has an average sale price of $42k, why would you choose hybrid over that? I would agree that a hybrid is a far better comparison than a Porsche GT3, glad you do too. That was kind of the point of my comment...

franklyt 5y ago

Oftentimes, people will say correlation does not imply causation, and this is mathematically true (imply means something different in regular parlance, and correlation can very well imply causation in that usage). That being said, this is probably a case of putting the cart before the horse.

darknavi 5y ago

I wonder how much of this is "Baby's first EV". My Model 3 was my first EV and while I like the Tesla features a lot, a huge portion of the love is being able charge at home and never go to a gas station (except for the occasion propane refill). Once you get used to driving an EV (very smooth acceleration, silent, etc.) driving a gas car as a commuter is a bit less appealing.

irrational 5y ago
Commuter? What is this 2019?
- darknavi 5y ago
  Back in my day I had to drive to work... and back!
  - irrational 5y ago
    And we liked it! (not really)
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    and... uphill in the snow! both ways!
epistasis 5y ago
It's my second EV. I got a BMW m235i in between my first EV and my Model 3, because my lease on the EV was up, I loved the performance of the EV, and wanted some range until I could buy a Model 3. I'm super concerned about climate, but don't drive much and thought that I could justify a 20-25mpg vehicle for a few short years... The Model 3 is by far the best car I've had. Had multiple Pruises, a boat of a Chevy Impala, and driven lots of rental cars when on trips to places without public transit. And despite all this, I'm still slightly ashamed to say it's my favorite car, because I'm no fan of Musk. Whatever team at Tesla is building this is great, but I have a feeling that it has very little to do with the singular person who wants to take credit...

blhack 5y ago

It is truly strange how much hate Tesla seems to get from people. I recently bought a model Y. It is not an exaggeration to say that it is the best car I have ever driven, or even been inside of. 1) It's fast (very fast). 2) It looks great. 3) The in vehicle display looks fantastic, and is extremely responsive. It feels like the difference between using an iPad or using a cheap ($50) android tablet from aliexpress. 4) The in vehicle speech commands are excellent. 5) The autopilot is excellent. 6) The mobile app is excellent. If you are seriously confused as to why Tesla owners are so fanatical about their cars: go drive one. It shouldn't surprise people that these vehicles are sold out for the near future. They're actually just that good.

dap 5y ago
I have wondered a lot, though: does that mean other people would love it too? Could it be that it's somewhat unusual (it is), and that its unique qualities are super clear to everyone, and so the people who buy it love it, and the people who choose not to buy it would indeed hate it? (I've driven one for about 10 minutes. It was fine, and maybe I'd love it if I drove it longer. Lack of tactile controls for radio and AC are a big bummer, though.) (edited)
- blhack 5y ago
  I seem to get a ton of compliments on it, at least (although that is likely more about the appearance than anything). And my friends who have ridden with me also seem to love it. Hmm, re: tactile controls: these at least for me are replaced by the steering wheel controls and voice commands.
  - Dah00n 5y ago
    >voice commands Voice commands are worse for traffic safety than driving on the legal drink-drive limit: https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-pages/end-customer-campaigns/infotainment# https://www.iamroadsmart.com/campaign-pages/end-customer-cam... https://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/10/new-hands-free-technologies-pose-hidden-dangers-for-drivers/ https://newsroom.aaa.com/2015/10/new-hands-free-technologies...

TheBolivianNavy 5y ago

I've owned a Model 3 for over a year. It's ok. I had a rough idea of what I was getting into but the amount of "software" problems I've run into... Every software update breaks something. The rear view camera sometimes just blacks out, requiring a soft reboot of the car. Side cameras will just stop working in the middle of a drive. The radio sometimes doesn't work. Requires soft reboot. Speaker volume levels randomly maxing out. Phantom breaking on empty highway on a perfectly clear day. Trunk randomly opening in the middle of the night (seriously, multiple times). It's in a garage but wtf Charger door cycling non-stop with nothing connected. Fix? Soft reboot. Every time I've had to contact Tesla for anything (buying the car/service issues/wall charger issues) the people have been friendly but unbelievably disorganized. It's a fun car to drive but there are some serious issues.

darknavi 5y ago
One thing that fixed a lot of the "need a reboot" issues I was having was turning off Sentry mode at home. This allows the car to actually "deep sleep" where as before my car was humming along 24/7. Maybe it's a placebo, but it seemed to help!
- DennisP 5y ago
  So the car needs sleep? Their AI might be further along than we realize.
- hooloovoo_zoo 5y ago
  I wish sentry mode didn't exist; the flashing headlights are a nuisance feature.
  - darknavi 5y ago
    As an owner I love Sentry mode (especially if you set up some automations to offload it and merge the video streams). I wish the blinking lights was configurable though.
mysterydip 5y ago

nikolay 5y ago

Correlation is not causation.

URSpider94 5y ago
It is when the actual story is about them being the happiest with the car they own, not the happiest people in general.
- nikolay 5y ago
  So, you think you will be happy with your car if you're unhappy in life?!

nikolay 5y ago

Happier than even Maybach owners?

emodendroket 5y ago

Given the missionary zeal of a lot of Tesla owners I wonder if that speaks to the quality of the cars or the type of people who buy them.

SKILNER 5y ago

I have a Model 3 after maybe 7-8 new Beemers and Lexuses over the years. The Model 3 is easily my favorite car. Everything else seems like a heavy, belching dinosaur. I don't say that so much from an eco POV, as the lightness of touch of stomping on the pedal with no noise, instant acceleration, no gear changes, just an unrelenting push back into your seat - it's just "lighter" and effortless. (I know it weighs a lot, that's not my point) The software glitches are a nuisance at times, but how many OS releases behind do you keep your phone and PCs?

oneplane 5y ago
You drive a beamer? That seems odd (image search it). Perhaps it's that thing there the local language mistranslates something. Regarding the 'everything else seems heavy'-feeling: that is exactly what it feels like to me as well. Not in some absolute term of 'therefore it is bad' but the difference is quite present. With a lot of cars it seems like driving it is an effort, and it is presented as being an effort and almost praised as a universally positive property of the car. At the same time it's very weird to see the polarisation within the world of car users as if you can't have both. If I were to drive to get some job done, I really don't want to drive 'with effort' or have a car that 'shows some effort'. I want to get from A to B and do the thing I wanted to do, not 'work the car'. That is a strange realisation when you drive a lot of previous-generation cars and don't have an issue with that right up until the moment you get the ease of an EV that just 'does the thing'.

pmarreck 5y ago

Unsurprised Tesla owner here. Tesla made driving fun again.

Corrado 5y ago
I concur. After a lifetime of Audi, Honda, and VW cars I can honestly say that my Model Y has made driving fun again. I actually look for reasons to drive now. If friends and I are going out, I'll offer to drive everyone. Need something at the store? I'll get it! It's actually kind of ridiculous that pleasure I get from driving now.
- pmarreck 5y ago
  I have a friend in town who just scored a Model Y and he loves it. His son was begging for one for years now lol. The kids know what's up!

kgc 5y ago

Now the only question is if car owners are happier than non car owners.

tobych 5y ago

The title of the OP seems pretty misleading. Neither the Consumer Reports article the author refers to, or the "owner satisfaction survey" that this in turn refers to, mention "happiness". The survey and the article seem to be about satisfaction with the car itself, rather than the owner's happiness in any general sense. Which is what I and, it seems from other comments, others have interpreted the title as. Might be worth changing the title of ths post, too.

mxcrossb 5y ago
I am in favor of the current title as it makes it extremely obvious how few HN users actually read an article before commenting.

the__alchemist 5y ago

Are Teslas still noisy on the highway? (due to letting in more road noise than other cars) Dealbreaker for me.

darknavi 5y ago
I wouldn't call my Model 3 noisier than other cars, but at highway speeds it certainly isn't quieter. They need to invest in some ANC that other brands are brining on.
URSpider94 5y ago
No, they aren’t still noisy, and in fact they never have been. Their noise levels are quite similar to other cars. People PERCEIVE them as being loud because there’s no engine noise blended in with the tire and wind noise, and because they are practically silent at low speed. If you really want a quieter car, the Model S is rated as one of the quietest cars on the road.

hbarka 5y ago

I understand the derision here when it comes to Tesla because of a figure like Elon Musk. I can attest to it. I used to fanboy Musk but now I believe Tesla succeeds in spite of Musk. There have been too many promises from him not meeting expectations. He also seems pretty ruthless in his leadership of the organization. Just look at the history of exodus. In spite of this, I can genuinely say that out of all the cars I have driven, there is a certain joy in the driving experience of an electric car and Tesla cars without any hype are the ones offering performance, range, and updated software. It’s too bad that the other car companies are just now getting to par with Tesla’s specs. The Model 3 is also relatively priced by the way.

kar1181 5y ago

I’ve had my model 3 since Jan and like most, it’s had it’s share of issues. It is also, certainly, the least well built car I’ve ever owned. But gosh I love driving it. It’s a pleasure. I have driven a lot of the current crop of competing BEVs and they just aren’t as fun.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jchw 5y ago

Tesla certainly has its issues to resolve, but among the biggest problem for me with buying a Tesla is that it represents the gradual but seemingly unstoppable transition of car ownership becoming very much less “ownership,” the way that had happened with software and computers in general. The actual QC issues do seem somewhat serious, but having been inside of a Model X I can 100% understand why someone would be more than happy to deal with an abnormal amount of service issues in exchange for the experience; to this day I would not be surprised if there are no strong direct competitors. Last I looked, most electric cars focused on budget, and I’ve heard newer more luxury focused options still come up a bit short. I’m not a car person. I have only been in a few “luxury” cars. The Tesla was definitely the defining, “OK, I understand why people enjoy this” moment for me. The amount of torque is terrifying, and it doesn’t really feel like it attempts to emulate the limitations of a gas car in any way. It feels very futuristic. Compared to my Civic, it’s obviously a hell of a time. But there are some points worth noting. The Sensing feature on the Civic sounds like a nice additional safety feature, but it is pretty abysmal. Of course you wouldn’t expect it to be anything like Waymo Driver or Tesla Autopilot, but even as a safety feature its value is tenuous, very occasionally doing things that could be dangerous (like automatically firing the brakes during a sharp turn...) And the Civic is a well-respected line in terms of being cheap and fairly reliable from what I understand, but there were a litany of hardware and software QC issues in at least the 2016-2018 range. Again, you can’t really compare these two vehicles. But the Civic is a vehicle you buy because it’s a safe choice, yet you could easily end up spending thousands to fix climate control components that should’ve been recalled out-of-warranty, or have issues with software-controlled brakes failing (not in a safety-critical way to the best of my knowledge, but there are some bugs, which makes you feel a bit uneasy...) I feel like Tesla owners know what they’re getting into: it’s buggy, it might even be insecure, and there are even ethics issues at hand, but it’s luxurious and it feels like the future. Not too many people sell the future in entrenched industries. A Tesla is rare, and I think that is probably why it generates so much hype... I could probably afford to buy a Tesla. However, I’ll pass. I would like an electric vehicle, but I am just going to hope that there’s an option more down my alley in the future. Maybe there will be an option where you actually own the car you buy, even! Let’s all keep donating to Louis Rossman, on that note...

Dah00n 5y ago

In the US. 100% of consumer reports I have seen in Europe doesn't have Tesla in top 3. It's mostly BMW and Toyota at #1. Edit: Here's a Danish one (linked directly to a picture since most won't understand the article). The article mentions that Tesla is the worst rated car when asking people about the dealer and repair. https://fdm.dk/sites/default/files/styles/ckeditor_textwidth_medium/public/inline-images/Autoindex2020.jpg https://fdm.dk/sites/default/files/styles/ckeditor_textwidth...

alkonaut 5y ago

My guess: Tesla can sell cars that might not be top quality because a) first time EV owners are a huge chunk of owners and they get the first time EV experience. Second, in the US Tesla buyers are also still predominantly new car buyers and their sales experience is contrasted to the traditional US dealership sales experience which sounds awful (much of the rest of the world has had showroom + configurators for decades). A fair comparison would be comparing Tesla owners who have driven other EVs and excluding the US. Everything else is just including ICE to EV or comparing Tesla sales process to US traditional car sales.

keb_ 5y ago

Been driving a Honda Civic 2005 since high school, still runs strong. I am convinced I am the happiest car owner ever.

Shadonototro 5y ago

$TSLA having a bad ~day~ ~week~ ~month~ quarter? they have to find new exciting things to write, c'mon guys