5 ms·

When I proposed a couple years ago (2019) that we remove all karma integers from the HN website for a week to see if the quality of the site would improve or wo

When I proposed a couple years ago (2019) that we remove all karma integers from the HN website for a week to see if the quality of the site would improve or worsen, people argued that it should be something they can opt out of. The most common argument I remember was “I need unread counts to know if a topic is worth reading”, which suggests the early stages of addiction to high positive integers that we’re seeing on every other site. Have we come around yet to agreeing that all like counts are harmful — whether Facebook, Twitter, or HN? Because I’d love to see what HN is like when people participate based on the content rather than the integers. (2019) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19745267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19745267

IggleSniggle 5y ago
It’s funny, but the only reason I care about my HN count is because it’s my only indication that someone has responded to something I’ve said, so when I notice my count has changed, I go glance at my comments section to see if someone has said something in response.
- Nadya 5y ago
  If you use a Chromium-based browser this extension [0] was posted not too long ago on Show HN and I've been using it since. It is a more accurate way of seeing replies to your posts since not everyone votes before replying. [0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-notifications/bbkfblhdgiddlkfkipjdhhfoephonoba https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-notifi...
  - IggleSniggle 5y ago
    Great suggestion, but unfortunately I almost exclusively on iOS when on HN.
- saagarjha 5y ago
  I've used https://www.hnreplies.com/ https://www.hnreplies.com/ for a couple of years and it's served me well.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
Something interesting to note - I think if your account gets deranked by the moderators(I don't know the details of how it works), your account gets significantly fewer upvotes yet receives all downvotes, disincentivizing controversial speech. I think it's done on my account, and while it's annoying sometimes, it's been a net positive for me(I'm sensitive to votes).
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  If you have a question for the moderators about your account, I encourage you to email them at the page footer Contact email address.
- exikyut 5y ago
  My comments typically get 2-3 upvotes, with the occasional 7 and very rare 15 or 23. About 60% stay at 1 vote.
nate_meurer 5y ago
I don't know, but I've hidden my own personal HN karma score from myself, and it has greatly improved my experience. I use uBlock Origin's element blocking to hide my karma number at the top of the page next to my user name, and I use Leechblock to block my profile page. I have no idea what my karma is now. And I don't care, or at least I didn't think I cared, but I used to spend significant time checking on it. Stupidest waste of time ever, and it told me something about myself. Blocking my profile page also frees me from going back and nursing my recent threads, which was also mostly a waste of time. There's some cost in engagement, but the site is less stressful for me now. For example, I won't be coming back to check on this thread, partly in case some joker posts my karma here, but also just because I've gotten what I want from the comments (in a good way; user motohagiography's comment in particular threatens to make me spend a day reading about stochastic thingies).
- FatalLogic 5y ago
  >I won't be coming back to check on this thread, partly in case some joker posts my karma here.. Sounds like you need a simple script that grabs your current karma from the HN API, and then cleans that number (±10?) from HN pages for you, so you can browse the site without fear of being trolled Unfortunately, you won't see this suggestion :)
tinco 5y ago
I'm pretty sure the karma system has deterred me from making comments that really have no place at the forum a couple of times. I'm not a karma whore, I don't post specifically to get karma. I just like contributing and engaging, but I also like to see my score go up slowly. I bet I'm not the only one that's in the middle of the road like that. How many overly emotional, rash and knee jerk comments has it saved us all? And conversely, I think it's trained me to give just a little bit more thought to most comments, and put in a little more effort. And that effect smeared over everyone on HN is what makes it great.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  I believe, unproven, that if you could see when your comments earned many replies, turned gray from downvoted, or got flagged by people, then That would be enough information to allow voting to continue to provide a social guiderail without the exact integers of everything mattering. I would also like to see karma show rate of change instead of an integer, so that I can just see if there are replies, gray’d, or flagged posts/comments. Instead I optimize for only reading the last two digits of my karma. It encourages visiting too often just to assure myself that there’s no reason to visit.
  - Sebb767 5y ago
    > I believe, unproven, that if you could see when your comments earned many replies, turned gray from downvoted, or got flagged by people, then That would be enough information to allow voting to continue to provide a social guiderail without the exact integers of everything mattering. Upvotes and replies to a comment do not necessarily indicate the same thing. A controversial comment can spark discussion, but an idea can do so as well; only the latter would receive many upvotes. A good and long explanation, for example, might be very valuable, but not receive many replies and only upvotes, while a boring comment will receive neither. I think HN not showing the score of comments already does a solid job of preventing trains; you yourself seeing the score just allows you to know whether people valued your contribution.
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
exikyut 5y ago
I opted out by making the site unusable. For the past three-four years I've had a topcolor of #222222, the same color as the vote count text. So I've had to click the "threads" link blindly, as the link text is nigh impossible to read now. But now clicking that threads link is truly hard, so I don't do it often, which also breaks the engagement/addiction cycle, so I see no point in filing a bug report. Comment and move on. It's nice.
mattgreenrocks 5y ago
> Have we come around yet to agreeing that all like counts are harmful — whether Facebook, Twitter, or HN? They are, but it's hard to get people to accept this because it's based on a false economy: "this integer will determine whether I should read this comment or not." Instead, they should be asking themselves, "why am I putting up with so much garbage content? Why do I need distraction?" The latter question can be quite unsettling.

IggleSniggle 5y ago

It’s funny, but the only reason I care about my HN count is because it’s my only indication that someone has responded to something I’ve said, so when I notice my count has changed, I go glance at my comments section to see if someone has said something in response.

Nadya 5y ago
If you use a Chromium-based browser this extension [0] was posted not too long ago on Show HN and I've been using it since. It is a more accurate way of seeing replies to your posts since not everyone votes before replying. [0] https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-notifications/bbkfblhdgiddlkfkipjdhhfoephonoba https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-notifi...
- IggleSniggle 5y ago
  Great suggestion, but unfortunately I almost exclusively on iOS when on HN.
saagarjha 5y ago
I've used https://www.hnreplies.com/ https://www.hnreplies.com/ for a couple of years and it's served me well.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago

Something interesting to note - I think if your account gets deranked by the moderators(I don't know the details of how it works), your account gets significantly fewer upvotes yet receives all downvotes, disincentivizing controversial speech. I think it's done on my account, and while it's annoying sometimes, it's been a net positive for me(I'm sensitive to votes).

floatingatoll 5y ago
If you have a question for the moderators about your account, I encourage you to email them at the page footer Contact email address.
exikyut 5y ago
My comments typically get 2-3 upvotes, with the occasional 7 and very rare 15 or 23. About 60% stay at 1 vote.

nate_meurer 5y ago

I don't know, but I've hidden my own personal HN karma score from myself, and it has greatly improved my experience. I use uBlock Origin's element blocking to hide my karma number at the top of the page next to my user name, and I use Leechblock to block my profile page. I have no idea what my karma is now. And I don't care, or at least I didn't think I cared, but I used to spend significant time checking on it. Stupidest waste of time ever, and it told me something about myself. Blocking my profile page also frees me from going back and nursing my recent threads, which was also mostly a waste of time. There's some cost in engagement, but the site is less stressful for me now. For example, I won't be coming back to check on this thread, partly in case some joker posts my karma here, but also just because I've gotten what I want from the comments (in a good way; user motohagiography's comment in particular threatens to make me spend a day reading about stochastic thingies).

FatalLogic 5y ago
>I won't be coming back to check on this thread, partly in case some joker posts my karma here.. Sounds like you need a simple script that grabs your current karma from the HN API, and then cleans that number (±10?) from HN pages for you, so you can browse the site without fear of being trolled Unfortunately, you won't see this suggestion :)

tinco 5y ago

I'm pretty sure the karma system has deterred me from making comments that really have no place at the forum a couple of times. I'm not a karma whore, I don't post specifically to get karma. I just like contributing and engaging, but I also like to see my score go up slowly. I bet I'm not the only one that's in the middle of the road like that. How many overly emotional, rash and knee jerk comments has it saved us all? And conversely, I think it's trained me to give just a little bit more thought to most comments, and put in a little more effort. And that effect smeared over everyone on HN is what makes it great.

floatingatoll 5y ago
I believe, unproven, that if you could see when your comments earned many replies, turned gray from downvoted, or got flagged by people, then That would be enough information to allow voting to continue to provide a social guiderail without the exact integers of everything mattering. I would also like to see karma show rate of change instead of an integer, so that I can just see if there are replies, gray’d, or flagged posts/comments. Instead I optimize for only reading the last two digits of my karma. It encourages visiting too often just to assure myself that there’s no reason to visit.
- Sebb767 5y ago
  > I believe, unproven, that if you could see when your comments earned many replies, turned gray from downvoted, or got flagged by people, then That would be enough information to allow voting to continue to provide a social guiderail without the exact integers of everything mattering. Upvotes and replies to a comment do not necessarily indicate the same thing. A controversial comment can spark discussion, but an idea can do so as well; only the latter would receive many upvotes. A good and long explanation, for example, might be very valuable, but not receive many replies and only upvotes, while a boring comment will receive neither. I think HN not showing the score of comments already does a solid job of preventing trains; you yourself seeing the score just allows you to know whether people valued your contribution.
  - floatingatoll 5y ago

exikyut 5y ago

I opted out by making the site unusable. For the past three-four years I've had a topcolor of #222222, the same color as the vote count text. So I've had to click the "threads" link blindly, as the link text is nigh impossible to read now. But now clicking that threads link is truly hard, so I don't do it often, which also breaks the engagement/addiction cycle, so I see no point in filing a bug report. Comment and move on. It's nice.

mattgreenrocks 5y ago

> Have we come around yet to agreeing that all like counts are harmful — whether Facebook, Twitter, or HN? They are, but it's hard to get people to accept this because it's based on a false economy: "this integer will determine whether I should read this comment or not." Instead, they should be asking themselves, "why am I putting up with so much garbage content? Why do I need distraction?" The latter question can be quite unsettling.