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That $4.5 number is completely worthless as a comparison to burglaries. It is just the number in the fund at the end of the year. You are basically trying to

by slg 6y ago

That $4.5 number is completely worthless as a comparison to burglaries. It is just the number in the fund at the end of the year. You are basically trying to assume a person's income based off the money in their checking account. It is nonsensical. I have said elsewhere in this thread that the burden of proof shouldn't be on the owner to prove innocence, but I'm not sure simply changing that turns it into criminal forfeiture. My understanding is that criminal forfeiture only happens when the owner is convicted of a crime. Meanwhile civil forfeiture can happen when the crime is committed by someone else (technically the item being forfeited). Back to the Madoff example, not all of the money was taken from Madoff directly. Other people benefited from Madoff's crimes without being aware that crimes were being committed. I think it is acceptable for that third party profit to be forfeited despite the owners not committing a crime.

opo 6y ago
>...That $4.5 number is completely worthless as a comparison to burglaries. It gives a sense of the scale of the abuse. A number of states refused to give out the data, so it is a low estimate. >...My understanding is that criminal forfeiture only happens when the owner is convicted of a crime. Yes, and that is justifiable. Abuses like confiscating a person's money because they went on a domestic airline flight with a large amount of cash are not justifiable. >...Back to the Madoff example, not all of the money was taken from Madoff directly. It is a mistake to just focus on a large forfeiture as that is rare: >...Data from 21 states show half of all currency forfeitures are worth less than $1,300, hardly the stuff of vast criminal enterprises and far less than it would cost to hire an attorney to fight back. https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeiture-rakes-in-billions-each-year-does-not-fight-crime-2/ https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeitu...

by slg 6y ago

opo 6y ago

>...That $4.5 number is completely worthless as a comparison to burglaries. It gives a sense of the scale of the abuse. A number of states refused to give out the data, so it is a low estimate. >...My understanding is that criminal forfeiture only happens when the owner is convicted of a crime. Yes, and that is justifiable. Abuses like confiscating a person's money because they went on a domestic airline flight with a large amount of cash are not justifiable. >...Back to the Madoff example, not all of the money was taken from Madoff directly. It is a mistake to just focus on a large forfeiture as that is rare: >...Data from 21 states show half of all currency forfeitures are worth less than $1,300, hardly the stuff of vast criminal enterprises and far less than it would cost to hire an attorney to fight back. https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeiture-rakes-in-billions-each-year-does-not-fight-crime-2/ https://ij.org/press-release/new-report-finds-civil-forfeitu...