5 ms·

As has been said elsewhere in the comments, the point isn't about the severity of his crimes. The point is that people shouldn't be treated so poorly in prisons

As has been said elsewhere in the comments, the point isn't about the severity of his crimes. The point is that people shouldn't be treated so poorly in prisons. The idea that it's okay to horribly mistreat prisoners because they're 'bad people' is ghastly and outdated. The purpose of prisons should be to keep dangerous people away from regular people, and to rehabilitate the people capable of rehabilitation, not to punish 'bad people' because it makes us feel good.

stockholm_sloth 5y ago
Congratulations on your stoic decision to become a prison guard. I am sure you will show them how it's done!
- soco 5y ago
  This is not exactly a constructive comment, sorry to mention it but you seem to be new around here. Do you have a counter argument to give?
- eigenspace 5y ago
  That's an incredibly lazy, facetious reply. The character of individual prison guards is hardly the major factor here. It's not some statistical anomaly that American prisons are such awful, expensive, ineffective, and cruel places. What's wrong is institutional and requires political action.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> people shouldn't be treated so poorly But... there's nothing in the article that suggests that they were treated particularly poorly. He was called "big bang theory", the basketball hoops were different heights, letters were opened and pictures were confiscated, and somebody referred to people with mental health issues as "screws and schizos". That's it? That's your entire indictment of the unfair treatment of people who actually did do horrible things to other people? Sure, there's room for improvement, but... not really that much room.
- eigenspace 5y ago
  Yeah, this article in particular is not really the one I'd pick if I wanted to highlight the problems with American prisons. It's anecdotal anyways. Even the best, most compassionate prisons in the world probably have lots of quite negative anecdotes. However, the horrors of the American prison system are pretty well documented, and I'm not sure it's really controversial to say that these are very bad places to find oneself, significantly worse than the prisons of many other western developed nations, and a much larger percentage of America's population is in prison than any other democratic nation.
- ultrastable 5y ago
  maybe this particular article doesn't expose the worst aspects of prisons, but overall there might be some room for improvement, eg https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/20/an-inmate-died-after-being-locked-in-a-scalding-shower-for-two-hours-his-guards-wont-be-charged/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/2... besides, a misdemeanor & driving w/ a suspended license hardly confirms that "horrible things" have been done to other people. I'm sure even the most casual observer of the US has some awareness of the vast numbers in jail for non-violent drug offenses. quite aside from the above, even the assumption that committing a crime is what's put an inmate inside is off the mark: https://csgjusticecenter.org/publications/confined-costly/ https://csgjusticecenter.org/publications/confined-costly/
ultrastable 5y ago
you're completely right about the barbarism inherent to the whole retributive mindset, but prisons aren't even effective for the more humane goals you're talking about - they're much more likely to push someone further outside the bounds of legal society than rehabilitate, & the recedivism/rearrest statistics are pretty surprising too
- eigenspace 5y ago
  Sure, but I think we might be just getting into a semantics game with how we define prison. I just think that 'prisons' should become whatever sort of institution is best at rehabilitating criminals while still minimizing the amount of harm they can do to society during the rehabilitation process.
  - ultrastable 5y ago
    not trying to be pedantic, sorry. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of people who do awful things but are surprisingly unlikely to reoffend & so whose post-offence imprisonment doesn't actually make society any safer.

stockholm_sloth 5y ago

Congratulations on your stoic decision to become a prison guard. I am sure you will show them how it's done!

soco 5y ago
This is not exactly a constructive comment, sorry to mention it but you seem to be new around here. Do you have a counter argument to give?
eigenspace 5y ago
That's an incredibly lazy, facetious reply. The character of individual prison guards is hardly the major factor here. It's not some statistical anomaly that American prisons are such awful, expensive, ineffective, and cruel places. What's wrong is institutional and requires political action.

commandlinefan 5y ago

> people shouldn't be treated so poorly But... there's nothing in the article that suggests that they were treated particularly poorly. He was called "big bang theory", the basketball hoops were different heights, letters were opened and pictures were confiscated, and somebody referred to people with mental health issues as "screws and schizos". That's it? That's your entire indictment of the unfair treatment of people who actually did do horrible things to other people? Sure, there's room for improvement, but... not really that much room.

eigenspace 5y ago
Yeah, this article in particular is not really the one I'd pick if I wanted to highlight the problems with American prisons. It's anecdotal anyways. Even the best, most compassionate prisons in the world probably have lots of quite negative anecdotes. However, the horrors of the American prison system are pretty well documented, and I'm not sure it's really controversial to say that these are very bad places to find oneself, significantly worse than the prisons of many other western developed nations, and a much larger percentage of America's population is in prison than any other democratic nation.
ultrastable 5y ago
maybe this particular article doesn't expose the worst aspects of prisons, but overall there might be some room for improvement, eg https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/20/an-inmate-died-after-being-locked-in-a-scalding-shower-for-two-hours-his-guards-wont-be-charged/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/03/2... besides, a misdemeanor & driving w/ a suspended license hardly confirms that "horrible things" have been done to other people. I'm sure even the most casual observer of the US has some awareness of the vast numbers in jail for non-violent drug offenses. quite aside from the above, even the assumption that committing a crime is what's put an inmate inside is off the mark: https://csgjusticecenter.org/publications/confined-costly/ https://csgjusticecenter.org/publications/confined-costly/

ultrastable 5y ago

you're completely right about the barbarism inherent to the whole retributive mindset, but prisons aren't even effective for the more humane goals you're talking about - they're much more likely to push someone further outside the bounds of legal society than rehabilitate, & the recedivism/rearrest statistics are pretty surprising too

eigenspace 5y ago
Sure, but I think we might be just getting into a semantics game with how we define prison. I just think that 'prisons' should become whatever sort of institution is best at rehabilitating criminals while still minimizing the amount of harm they can do to society during the rehabilitation process.
- ultrastable 5y ago
  not trying to be pedantic, sorry. I'm just pointing out that there are a lot of people who do awful things but are surprisingly unlikely to reoffend & so whose post-offence imprisonment doesn't actually make society any safer.