3 ms·

They implement Linux functionality enough to suck at it and then the Windows users that try it thinks it is Linux that sucks and not Windows.

cptskippy 6y ago
The Linux functionality is intended to allow Windows developers to develop for Linux and deploy to Linux.
- encryptluks2 6y ago
  Compiling on WSL2 would have terrible performance. WSL2 is just there to try to entice companies to say their developers shouldn't need to move to Linux or Mac. No one is seriously developing in WSL.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Why would they need WSL2 to do that? AD and Office were and still are plenty enough to keep MS on corporate PCs.
  - cptskippy 6y ago
    It's not really targeted at compiling either. Think line of business apps on web technology like .NET Core, PHP, Python, etc... With WSL you can setup some docker containers or do some orchestration with Kubernetes and push it off to the cloud with minimal effort. If you really want a full Linux environment you can spin up a VM in Hyper-V. WSL just makes it easier to do things where a VM is a hassle.
    - encryptluks2 6y ago
      Docker containers don't run in WSL.
      - jhomedall 6y ago
        They do in WSL2, as I understand it.
        encryptluks2 6y ago
        Try it out... install Ubuntu using WSL2. Install docker using apt-get. See that it doesn't work without the Docker Desktop install for Windows and a special integration. Try running podman or other container-based solutions and see that they don't work.
        jhomedall 6y ago
        Having followed the instructions from https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/ https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/, I was able to get this working fine. This is without Docker Desktop installed. It probably would have also worked with the version from distro repository. zed@ZED-PC:~$ sudo service docker start * Starting Docker: docker [ OK ] zed@ZED-PC:~$ sudo docker run hello-world Unable to find image 'hello-world:latest' locally latest: Pulling from library/hello-world b8dfde127a29: Pull complete Digest: sha256:f2266cbfc127c960fd30e76b7c792dc23b588c0db76233517e1891a4e357d519 Status: Downloaded newer image for hello-world:latest Hello from Docker! This message shows that your installation appears to be working correctly. The full output for 'docker run' was much longer, so I've snipped it down to size
        encryptluks2 6y ago
        Are you even on Windows? This is with WSL 2, as you can systemd doesn't work as expected in WSL2. This is a known issue. If systemd is working for you, then you are doing something magic: sudo systemctl start docker [sudo] password for u3332: System has not been booted with systemd as init system (PID 1). Can't operate. Failed to connect to bus: Host is down https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55579342/why-systemd-is-disabled-in-wsl https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55579342/why-systemd-is-...
  - chokolad 6y ago
    > Compiling on WSL2 would have terrible performance. define terrible. Compared to what ? > No one is seriously developing in WSL. A very strong statement. Do you have any proof perhaps ?
    - encryptluks2 6y ago
      > define terrible. Compared to what ? Terrible = significantly worse than a native Linux distro that doesn't use a file system integration layer. > A very strong statement. Do you have any proof perhaps ? Just experience working in the industry.
      - garethrowlands 6y ago
        > worse than a native Linux distro that doesn't use a file system integration layer What filesystem integration layer?
        encryptluks2 6y ago
        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-versions https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-version... > We recommend against working across operating systems with your files https://nelsonslog.wordpress.com/2019/06/01/wsl-access-to-linux-files-via-plan-9/ https://nelsonslog.wordpress.com/2019/06/01/wsl-access-to-li...
        garethrowlands 6y ago
        Yes, having your compiler on Linux access its files over plan9 would indeed have terrible performance. That's why Microsoft tell you not to do that. Just run everything on the Linux kernel and compilation will be the same as on Linux. You do have a choice of where you put your files.
skinkestek 6y ago
Let me tell you something interesting: .Net Core programs run much faster on Linux. Does that sound like something they would let happend if they wasn't serious about their Linux efforts? That said: all is not good. For years there seems to be a fight going on in the wheelhouse. One month it is: Microsoft, the reliable, reasonable vendor in a world full of Oracle and Google. Next month it is: let's increase the cost for this small company by $10000 just because we can. Next month: something admirable. Next month: try to push Edge using some sleazy tactic learned from Googles Chrome push combined with resetting the defaults. It must be frustrating for the guys who try so hard to drag the rest of Microsoft kicking and screaming into the future everytime some old guys gets up from the wheelchair and turn the weel all the way to the port side while the helmsman wasn't paying attention :-]
- zokula 6y ago
  Found the Micro$oft fanboy.
- tux3 6y ago
  >Does that sound like something they would let happend if they wasn't serious about their Linux efforts? Hhhm I think the most remarkable parr is that it runs at all, really! .Net Core on Linux by itself shows plenty commitment. The performance of it? Considering NT was only developped by a single company, has to maintains a lot of stable/legacy driver APIs, and seems to have been on the backburner for a few years, as a Linux user I'd find it very humbling if our kernel still came out behind :) It's interesting to see where this is all converging. It'll be easier to run Linux tech on Windows, and all the MS legacy still runs. But at the same time maybe they're familiarising their loyal userbase with the outside ecosystem a little more than they should. If new Windows users are encouraged to learn Linux ways, at some point you're making it easier for people to transition

cptskippy 6y ago

The Linux functionality is intended to allow Windows developers to develop for Linux and deploy to Linux.

encryptluks2 6y ago
Compiling on WSL2 would have terrible performance. WSL2 is just there to try to entice companies to say their developers shouldn't need to move to Linux or Mac. No one is seriously developing in WSL.
- kube-system 6y ago
  Why would they need WSL2 to do that? AD and Office were and still are plenty enough to keep MS on corporate PCs.
- cptskippy 6y ago
  It's not really targeted at compiling either. Think line of business apps on web technology like .NET Core, PHP, Python, etc... With WSL you can setup some docker containers or do some orchestration with Kubernetes and push it off to the cloud with minimal effort. If you really want a full Linux environment you can spin up a VM in Hyper-V. WSL just makes it easier to do things where a VM is a hassle.
  - encryptluks2 6y ago
    Docker containers don't run in WSL.
    - jhomedall 6y ago
      They do in WSL2, as I understand it.
      - encryptluks2 6y ago
        Try it out... install Ubuntu using WSL2. Install docker using apt-get. See that it doesn't work without the Docker Desktop install for Windows and a special integration. Try running podman or other container-based solutions and see that they don't work.
        jhomedall 6y ago
        Having followed the instructions from https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/ https://docs.docker.com/engine/install/ubuntu/, I was able to get this working fine. This is without Docker Desktop installed. It probably would have also worked with the version from distro repository. zed@ZED-PC:~$ sudo service docker start * Starting Docker: docker [ OK ] zed@ZED-PC:~$ sudo docker run hello-world Unable to find image 'hello-world:latest' locally latest: Pulling from library/hello-world b8dfde127a29: Pull complete Digest: sha256:f2266cbfc127c960fd30e76b7c792dc23b588c0db76233517e1891a4e357d519 Status: Downloaded newer image for hello-world:latest Hello from Docker! This message shows that your installation appears to be working correctly. The full output for 'docker run' was much longer, so I've snipped it down to size
        encryptluks2 6y ago
        Are you even on Windows? This is with WSL 2, as you can systemd doesn't work as expected in WSL2. This is a known issue. If systemd is working for you, then you are doing something magic: sudo systemctl start docker [sudo] password for u3332: System has not been booted with systemd as init system (PID 1). Can't operate. Failed to connect to bus: Host is down https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55579342/why-systemd-is-disabled-in-wsl https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55579342/why-systemd-is-...
- chokolad 6y ago
  > Compiling on WSL2 would have terrible performance. define terrible. Compared to what ? > No one is seriously developing in WSL. A very strong statement. Do you have any proof perhaps ?
  - encryptluks2 6y ago
    > define terrible. Compared to what ? Terrible = significantly worse than a native Linux distro that doesn't use a file system integration layer. > A very strong statement. Do you have any proof perhaps ? Just experience working in the industry.
    - garethrowlands 6y ago
      > worse than a native Linux distro that doesn't use a file system integration layer What filesystem integration layer?
      - encryptluks2 6y ago
        https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-versions https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-version... > We recommend against working across operating systems with your files https://nelsonslog.wordpress.com/2019/06/01/wsl-access-to-linux-files-via-plan-9/ https://nelsonslog.wordpress.com/2019/06/01/wsl-access-to-li...
        garethrowlands 6y ago
        Yes, having your compiler on Linux access its files over plan9 would indeed have terrible performance. That's why Microsoft tell you not to do that. Just run everything on the Linux kernel and compilation will be the same as on Linux. You do have a choice of where you put your files.

skinkestek 6y ago

Let me tell you something interesting: .Net Core programs run much faster on Linux. Does that sound like something they would let happend if they wasn't serious about their Linux efforts? That said: all is not good. For years there seems to be a fight going on in the wheelhouse. One month it is: Microsoft, the reliable, reasonable vendor in a world full of Oracle and Google. Next month it is: let's increase the cost for this small company by $10000 just because we can. Next month: something admirable. Next month: try to push Edge using some sleazy tactic learned from Googles Chrome push combined with resetting the defaults. It must be frustrating for the guys who try so hard to drag the rest of Microsoft kicking and screaming into the future everytime some old guys gets up from the wheelchair and turn the weel all the way to the port side while the helmsman wasn't paying attention :-]

zokula 6y ago
Found the Micro$oft fanboy.
tux3 6y ago
>Does that sound like something they would let happend if they wasn't serious about their Linux efforts? Hhhm I think the most remarkable parr is that it runs at all, really! .Net Core on Linux by itself shows plenty commitment. The performance of it? Considering NT was only developped by a single company, has to maintains a lot of stable/legacy driver APIs, and seems to have been on the backburner for a few years, as a Linux user I'd find it very humbling if our kernel still came out behind :) It's interesting to see where this is all converging. It'll be easier to run Linux tech on Windows, and all the MS legacy still runs. But at the same time maybe they're familiarising their loyal userbase with the outside ecosystem a little more than they should. If new Windows users are encouraged to learn Linux ways, at some point you're making it easier for people to transition