5 ms·

Since EU doesn't have an authority over non-EU countries, they just pond a sand or cut themselves off from the internet like North Korea.

by ezoe 5y ago

the_duke 5y ago
The EU is an important enough market that most companies will want to serve EU customers, which means they have to abide. GDPR has forced all companies to at least think about data security and personal data, and given rights to know what data is stored and to demand deletion. Sure, there are annoying consent modals, enforcement is lacking, many companies don't actually follow the law properly, and I've lost access to some websites/apps that don't want to deal with it. But this is a domain where standards are severely lacking, but necessary. No one will do it without being forced to. The biggest downside (for me) is the extra regulatory burden for small companies, but this particular legislation won't affect small companies much anyway.
- nonameiguess 5y ago
  It's not totally clear they would really try to do this, but there is no world in which US military DNS servers submit to inspection, auditing, and regulation by the EU. This is nothing like regulating commercial service providers. Even where FVEY reciprocity agreements exist, it's only for products, not for equipment and processes. Even where the US government operates facilities in the UK, there are parts of those facilities non-US persons aren't allowed into. Since the UK left, no EU member state is even a part of FVEY. Granted, DNS is not classified, so those specific restrictions do not apply, but you still can't just go up to the Pentagon unannounced with an EU regulator badge and expect to be let into the building.
  - oneplane 5y ago
    Yet the US military wants to inspect the EU's stuff so it seems to be a bit of a one-way thing right now. The US wants to do all sorts of shady stuff to the rest of the world, but as soon as someone wants to do some of that the other way around it suddenly is all sorts of bad.
    - kazen44 5y ago
      this "one way street" is one of the major talking points of many EU politicians in creating a more self sufficient union in terms of military power. It is still a long way to go though.
    - finiteseries 5y ago
      It’s not a two way street. The Californian defense minister doesn’t exist, and didn’t proclaim last November that “illusions of US strategic autonomy must come to an end” in response to criticism from the Texan president, citing sobering facts like “without the nuclear and conventional capabilities of the E.U., California and America cannot protect themselves.” https://www.politico.eu/article/german-minister-to-macron-eus-dependence-on-us-is-sobering-facts/ https://www.politico.eu/article/german-minister-to-macron-eu...
- dahfizz 5y ago
  > this is a domain where standards are severely lacking, but necessary. Source? DNS has worked perfectly for decades without out of touch politicians at the helm.
  - the_duke 5y ago
    I was talking about IT security and data handling standards in general, not specifically about the concrete issue of root servers.
  - pyrale 5y ago
    > DNS has worked perfectly for decades I know a few people that would disagree. In fact, Google maintains a list of such opinions on the topic at [1]. [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=it%27s+always+DNS https://www.google.com/search?q=it%27s+always+DNS
    - darkarmani 5y ago
      I would say "perfectly" is an exaggeration in terms of not every request being perfect, but as a system it has worked perfectly as designed. Name another system that has delivered the sheer quantity of results compared to the number of faults. I can't even imagine how many answers have been given DNS servers.
ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
If only, it might give birth to better online services as alternatives to the data-vampires over in the US.
- emteycz 5y ago
  No, all technologists from EU would jump over.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - wizzwizz4 5y ago
    No we wouldn't. We might connect the internets back together, though, if only to keep chatting with our non-EU IRC buddies.
    - emteycz 5y ago
      I don't know a single one that wouldn't not only jump over networks, but borders too. People are getting angry as it is now. Many of them are leaving because of the failure to handle covid, also PSD2, the inability to access many pages due to GDPR, the encryption ban plans, the tracked digital money plans, etc. The Ukrainians that were here for a decade or more are choosing to go back to Ukraine rather than stay in this, what an image of the EU. My 70 y/o grandmother is literally the only reason I'm still here.
      - joshuaissac 5y ago
        PSD2 has been great for EU citizens because it lets them use personal finance apps of choice instead of being locked in to their bank's own app. GDPR has been good even for non-EU citizens because it prompted some companies to provide data controls for all users, not just EU citizens. I have only come across a few American local news sites that block EU visitors. There are other reasons technologists may leave, such as higher salaries and larger capital markets in the US, but GDPR, PSD2 and Covid-19 would not be incentives for most.
disabled 5y ago
As a dual US|EU citizen, I would not mind it at all. I am no Luddite either.
- Proven 5y ago
  Who cares if you don't mind it? The question why everyone ought to be forced to follow some made up rules.

Since EU doesn't have an authority over non-EU countries, they just pond a sand or cut themselves off from the internet like North Korea.

by ezoe 5y ago

Since EU doesn't have an authority over non-EU countries, they just pond a sand or cut themselves off from the internet like North Korea.

the_duke 5y ago

The EU is an important enough market that most companies will want to serve EU customers, which means they have to abide. GDPR has forced all companies to at least think about data security and personal data, and given rights to know what data is stored and to demand deletion. Sure, there are annoying consent modals, enforcement is lacking, many companies don't actually follow the law properly, and I've lost access to some websites/apps that don't want to deal with it. But this is a domain where standards are severely lacking, but necessary. No one will do it without being forced to. The biggest downside (for me) is the extra regulatory burden for small companies, but this particular legislation won't affect small companies much anyway.

nonameiguess 5y ago
It's not totally clear they would really try to do this, but there is no world in which US military DNS servers submit to inspection, auditing, and regulation by the EU. This is nothing like regulating commercial service providers. Even where FVEY reciprocity agreements exist, it's only for products, not for equipment and processes. Even where the US government operates facilities in the UK, there are parts of those facilities non-US persons aren't allowed into. Since the UK left, no EU member state is even a part of FVEY. Granted, DNS is not classified, so those specific restrictions do not apply, but you still can't just go up to the Pentagon unannounced with an EU regulator badge and expect to be let into the building.
- oneplane 5y ago
  Yet the US military wants to inspect the EU's stuff so it seems to be a bit of a one-way thing right now. The US wants to do all sorts of shady stuff to the rest of the world, but as soon as someone wants to do some of that the other way around it suddenly is all sorts of bad.
  - kazen44 5y ago
    this "one way street" is one of the major talking points of many EU politicians in creating a more self sufficient union in terms of military power. It is still a long way to go though.
  - finiteseries 5y ago
    It’s not a two way street. The Californian defense minister doesn’t exist, and didn’t proclaim last November that “illusions of US strategic autonomy must come to an end” in response to criticism from the Texan president, citing sobering facts like “without the nuclear and conventional capabilities of the E.U., California and America cannot protect themselves.” https://www.politico.eu/article/german-minister-to-macron-eus-dependence-on-us-is-sobering-facts/ https://www.politico.eu/article/german-minister-to-macron-eu...
dahfizz 5y ago
> this is a domain where standards are severely lacking, but necessary. Source? DNS has worked perfectly for decades without out of touch politicians at the helm.
- the_duke 5y ago
  I was talking about IT security and data handling standards in general, not specifically about the concrete issue of root servers.
- pyrale 5y ago
  > DNS has worked perfectly for decades I know a few people that would disagree. In fact, Google maintains a list of such opinions on the topic at [1]. [1]: https://www.google.com/search?q=it%27s+always+DNS https://www.google.com/search?q=it%27s+always+DNS
  - darkarmani 5y ago
    I would say "perfectly" is an exaggeration in terms of not every request being perfect, but as a system it has worked perfectly as designed. Name another system that has delivered the sheer quantity of results compared to the number of faults. I can't even imagine how many answers have been given DNS servers.

ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago

If only, it might give birth to better online services as alternatives to the data-vampires over in the US.

emteycz 5y ago
No, all technologists from EU would jump over.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- wizzwizz4 5y ago
  No we wouldn't. We might connect the internets back together, though, if only to keep chatting with our non-EU IRC buddies.
  - emteycz 5y ago
    I don't know a single one that wouldn't not only jump over networks, but borders too. People are getting angry as it is now. Many of them are leaving because of the failure to handle covid, also PSD2, the inability to access many pages due to GDPR, the encryption ban plans, the tracked digital money plans, etc. The Ukrainians that were here for a decade or more are choosing to go back to Ukraine rather than stay in this, what an image of the EU. My 70 y/o grandmother is literally the only reason I'm still here.
    - joshuaissac 5y ago
      PSD2 has been great for EU citizens because it lets them use personal finance apps of choice instead of being locked in to their bank's own app. GDPR has been good even for non-EU citizens because it prompted some companies to provide data controls for all users, not just EU citizens. I have only come across a few American local news sites that block EU visitors. There are other reasons technologists may leave, such as higher salaries and larger capital markets in the US, but GDPR, PSD2 and Covid-19 would not be incentives for most.

disabled 5y ago

As a dual US|EU citizen, I would not mind it at all. I am no Luddite either.

Proven 5y ago
Who cares if you don't mind it? The question why everyone ought to be forced to follow some made up rules.