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Not the OP, but: Agriculture is a technological invention, but its results are perishable and usually hard to transport. The idea of agriculture likely spred t

Not the OP, but: Agriculture is a technological invention, but its results are perishable and usually hard to transport. The idea of agriculture likely spred through already existing trade routes, but transporting food needed another technological advances to become reliable and profitable.

throwaway894345 5y ago
As an aside, from my very amateur understanding, agriculture’s propagation was a lot more an outward migration of agriculturalists than I had previously believed (as opposed to spreading agricultural ideas to hunters and gatherers). This seems to be supported by genetic evidence, which I don’t purport to understand. I heartily recommend “Ancestral Journeys: The Peopling of Europe from The First Adventurers to The Vikings” by Jean Manco.
- AlotOfReading 5y ago
  This is only approximately true in parts of the middle east and mediterranean basin. It's very much not true in the rest of the world. Even in Europe, foragers and agriculturists lived in reasonably close proximity for thousands of years and yes, modern Europeans are related to both.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    This is presented as a rebuttal, but it seems to support my earlier comment that migration and cultural exchange (rather than the latter alone) accounted for the propagation of agrarianism.
- akiselev 5y ago
  I'm curious why you assumed it was more due to cultural exchange? I always assumed the reverse because agriculture increases surpluses that lead to more births, more specialization (which leads to improved warfare vs hunter gatherers), and more land pressure that forces outward migration. AFAIK most of the hunter gatherers didn't convert to farmers, but they were squeezed out by those that did because they grew much more slowly. I didn't think cultural exchange was a major factor until much later when large agricultural societies started to colonize and "modernize" the rest of the planet.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Naïveté mostly. I didn’t understand how relatively rigid culture is and how change happens largely through displacement. E.g., farmers largely out-bred hunter-gatherers to produce a largely agrarian world, rather than cultural exchange.
masklinn 5y ago
> Agriculture is a technological invention, but its results are perishable and usually hard to transport. The neolithic founder crops (rice, wheat, barley, flaxseed, various pulses) keep extremely well when whole or dried though.
- gostsamo 5y ago
  If you keep them in a cool and dry place - yes. Like in your basement. Not so sure while being transported. In addition, the difference in food prices should cover the price of transportation and the risk of far journeys.

throwaway894345 5y ago

As an aside, from my very amateur understanding, agriculture’s propagation was a lot more an outward migration of agriculturalists than I had previously believed (as opposed to spreading agricultural ideas to hunters and gatherers). This seems to be supported by genetic evidence, which I don’t purport to understand. I heartily recommend “Ancestral Journeys: The Peopling of Europe from The First Adventurers to The Vikings” by Jean Manco.

AlotOfReading 5y ago
This is only approximately true in parts of the middle east and mediterranean basin. It's very much not true in the rest of the world. Even in Europe, foragers and agriculturists lived in reasonably close proximity for thousands of years and yes, modern Europeans are related to both.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  This is presented as a rebuttal, but it seems to support my earlier comment that migration and cultural exchange (rather than the latter alone) accounted for the propagation of agrarianism.
akiselev 5y ago
I'm curious why you assumed it was more due to cultural exchange? I always assumed the reverse because agriculture increases surpluses that lead to more births, more specialization (which leads to improved warfare vs hunter gatherers), and more land pressure that forces outward migration. AFAIK most of the hunter gatherers didn't convert to farmers, but they were squeezed out by those that did because they grew much more slowly. I didn't think cultural exchange was a major factor until much later when large agricultural societies started to colonize and "modernize" the rest of the planet.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Naïveté mostly. I didn’t understand how relatively rigid culture is and how change happens largely through displacement. E.g., farmers largely out-bred hunter-gatherers to produce a largely agrarian world, rather than cultural exchange.

masklinn 5y ago

> Agriculture is a technological invention, but its results are perishable and usually hard to transport. The neolithic founder crops (rice, wheat, barley, flaxseed, various pulses) keep extremely well when whole or dried though.

gostsamo 5y ago
If you keep them in a cool and dry place - yes. Like in your basement. Not so sure while being transported. In addition, the difference in food prices should cover the price of transportation and the risk of far journeys.