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Exactly. It's getting the kids conditioned and addicted to devices just like Pavlov's dogs. Facebook knows exactly what they are doing here.

lotsofpulp 6y ago
It is human nature to want to converse with others. The internet itself makes it extremely convenient to be in a 24/7 chat with your crew, so it’s addictive with or without Facebook.
johannes1234321 6y ago
Yes, Facebook doesn't create that out of mercy. But what is the alternative aside from becoming Amish? You can't take away smartphones completely. And once there is the smartphone a communication app is the most useful thing they can get. Better than any game or whatever. But an open messaging app can quickly lead to issues. Would be good if there were non-profit vendors of similar things, bit they don't exist, yet.
- anoncake 6y ago
  And Facebook entrenching itself reduces the chance of a non-profit vendor succeeding.
- ryandrake 6y ago
  There is probably a middle ground somewhere between being hopelessly addicted to Social Media and going Amish and throwing away all technology. Someone mentioned the other day on HN that Social Media is the modern-day Smoking, and I agree there are a lot of parallels. Surely we can keep our kids out of S.M. without restricting them from using other, less harmful parts of technology.
- bun_at_work 6y ago
  The alternative isn't becoming Amish. It's being more mindful about how your children interact with new technologies. Facebook/Instagram/etc aren't required for children, and even if there are good arguments for social media for children (like learning how it works), that doesn't mean letting the children have unfettered access to the tech and letting these companies have unfettered access to the children's attention. Here's an alternative: restrict usage to a simple time-boxed window each day, contingent on the completion of what the child needs to have done (chores, homework, etc.). Augment that by limiting what apps the child will have access to, based on what is reasonable at the time. It requires effort, but seems totally reasonable. There doesn't seem to be a strong argument for children having continuous access to devices that have empirically been shown to cause serious mental health issues, not even including the crazy dangers of the internet (stalking, child sexualization, etc). Alternatively, don't control anything the child does and hope it works out.
  - johannes1234321 6y ago
    Well, communication is the primary feature I would allow. Back in my days it was typical for us to run to the phone booth "mom, I'm still out playing, will be late for dinner" Now there aren't phone booths anymore. The concept of the kids messenger by Facebook sounds right. Quite risk free communication, which allows giving the kid freedom without having to always look over their shoulder what they are doing. As said: that being not from Facebook would be great!
Ekaros 6y ago
I wonder if that just wouldn't happen latter anyway. As seen from many generations that had the "formative" childhood before smart phones and most social media.

lotsofpulp 6y ago

It is human nature to want to converse with others. The internet itself makes it extremely convenient to be in a 24/7 chat with your crew, so it’s addictive with or without Facebook.

johannes1234321 6y ago

Yes, Facebook doesn't create that out of mercy. But what is the alternative aside from becoming Amish? You can't take away smartphones completely. And once there is the smartphone a communication app is the most useful thing they can get. Better than any game or whatever. But an open messaging app can quickly lead to issues. Would be good if there were non-profit vendors of similar things, bit they don't exist, yet.

anoncake 6y ago
And Facebook entrenching itself reduces the chance of a non-profit vendor succeeding.
ryandrake 6y ago
There is probably a middle ground somewhere between being hopelessly addicted to Social Media and going Amish and throwing away all technology. Someone mentioned the other day on HN that Social Media is the modern-day Smoking, and I agree there are a lot of parallels. Surely we can keep our kids out of S.M. without restricting them from using other, less harmful parts of technology.
bun_at_work 6y ago
The alternative isn't becoming Amish. It's being more mindful about how your children interact with new technologies. Facebook/Instagram/etc aren't required for children, and even if there are good arguments for social media for children (like learning how it works), that doesn't mean letting the children have unfettered access to the tech and letting these companies have unfettered access to the children's attention. Here's an alternative: restrict usage to a simple time-boxed window each day, contingent on the completion of what the child needs to have done (chores, homework, etc.). Augment that by limiting what apps the child will have access to, based on what is reasonable at the time. It requires effort, but seems totally reasonable. There doesn't seem to be a strong argument for children having continuous access to devices that have empirically been shown to cause serious mental health issues, not even including the crazy dangers of the internet (stalking, child sexualization, etc). Alternatively, don't control anything the child does and hope it works out.
- johannes1234321 6y ago
  Well, communication is the primary feature I would allow. Back in my days it was typical for us to run to the phone booth "mom, I'm still out playing, will be late for dinner" Now there aren't phone booths anymore. The concept of the kids messenger by Facebook sounds right. Quite risk free communication, which allows giving the kid freedom without having to always look over their shoulder what they are doing. As said: that being not from Facebook would be great!

Ekaros 6y ago

I wonder if that just wouldn't happen latter anyway. As seen from many generations that had the "formative" childhood before smart phones and most social media.