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I'm not sure how chain-email debunking DHS seizures pertains to this specific case in the OP where hundreds of safety deposit boxes we seized by the FBI and the
by neither_color 5y ago
I'm not sure how chain-email debunking DHS seizures pertains to this specific case in the OP where hundreds of safety deposit boxes we seized by the FBI and there is an ongoing case over it. Fact checking blogs are notorious for selecting multiple variations of a rumor and "fact-checking" the low hanging fruit, then treating all other variants as satisfactorily debunked.
>"What the government has done here is completely backward," writes Frommer. "The government cannot search every apartment in a building because the landlord is involved in a crime. After all, when somebody rents an apartment, that apartment is theirs."
- gruez 5y ago>"What the government has done here is completely backward," writes Frommer. "The government cannot search every apartment in a building because the landlord is involved in a crime. After all, when somebody rents an apartment, that apartment is theirs." I disagree. Let's say you "rented" a room at a crackhouse. The house later gets seized and your stack of cash is seized. Is it reasonable to show up to the police station and say "yeah that's my cash, no it wasn't involved in anything illegal, can I have it back?"
- anamexis 5y ago> Let's say you "rented" a room at a crackhouse. The house later gets seized and your stack of cash is seized. Is it reasonable to show up to the police station and say "yeah that's my cash, no it wasn't involved in anything illegal, can I have it back?" Yes. Why wouldn't it be reasonable?
- DyslexicAtheist 5y agocan you declare it's source? otherwise it'll be quite silly to try reclaim it
- anamexis 5y agoWhy wouldn’t the onus be on the police to prove you obtained it illegally?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jb775 5y agoSo they should be considered guilty until proven innocent? By this logic, the FBI should be allowed to seize a bank and every bank account holder would need to prove where each penny came from.
- drdeca 5y agoI think you read the other comment backwards?
- giantg2 5y agoThat's basically how civil asset seizure works in practice. Technically they charge the asset and not the person, because they know the person has rights and could defend themselves. Somehow they got the courts to agree to allowing the asset to be the subject without extending any of the rights (like to representation) being extended to it.
- DyslexicAtheist 5y agothat was not the premise hat's being discussed! it was about a room being rented in a crack house. good luck getting your money if you don't have that source of revenue declared somewhere.
- anamexis 5y agoWhy would it matter that you are renting a room in a crack house? Do you have fewer rights if other people are committing crime in your vicinity?
- 5y ago
- giantg2 5y agoIt's not reasonable because the government and society have created an environment and system that has no incentive or obligation to return the property. Unless you are a part of the system (LEO, lawyer, judge, etc) your words are worthless. You are essentially a second class citizen. Edit: clarifying since I'm being downvoted... it should be reasonable but the way our system is currently "working" makes it unreasonable because the system will just ignore you. Hell, if you annoy them, they might find a reason to harass you more.
- anamexis 5y agoYes, we are in agreement.
- jonny_eh 5y agoThere is a line. A rented whole apartment is private. Same goes for safety deposit boxes.
- gruez 5y agoSo if escrobar separated his coke warehouse into separate units they can't all be seized?
- nefitty 5y agoYou can see an example of a search warrant in the link below. It specifically outlines the properties to be searched. If someone had multiple warehouses in question, I assume they would have to be individually listed. https://www.justice.gov/archive/amerithrax/docs/08-431-m-01.pdf https://www.justice.gov/archive/amerithrax/docs/08-431-m-01....
- jonny_eh 5y agoSaying that the line can sometimes be hard to define doesn't mean there isn't a clear line in the vast majority of cases. https://www.logicalfallacies.org/continuum-fallacy.html https://www.logicalfallacies.org/continuum-fallacy.html
- lostlogin 5y ago> escrobar This is an excellent typo. It’s like Pablo got into banking.
- _-david-_ 5y agoThere are likely RICO type laws that could be applied which would allow seizing everything in a warehouse no matter who is "renting" the individual units.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- pessimizer 5y agoWould you say the same thing about someone who rented a house in a meth town?
- gruez 5y agoThe difference is that the business itself (ie. the provider of the boxes) is alleged to be criminal.