5 ms·

In the month it will take me to finish reading Storm of Swords, I will watch ~10 movies. Plus, I'm reading Storm of Swords, which needs no additional support fr

In the month it will take me to finish reading Storm of Swords, I will watch ~10 movies. Plus, I'm reading Storm of Swords, which needs no additional support from readers to be discovered or validated--though I still want to read it. Plus, I digitally loaned it from my local library. I own a number of books (~200) and have probably owned x4 that total in my lifetime. Maybe 1/3 of those I paid full price for new. The rest I sourced either cheap on Ebay or about free from second-hand stores. I've spent probably less than $4,000 total on books, not counting textbooks, while being in the minority of people who buy and read books. I don't really know where I'm going with this, but the question that comes to mind is something like this: how many people like me does it take to support one professional writer? Non-fiction writers are way more likely to have other income sources than fiction writers. For example, I'm reading Marketing Made Simple (Donald Miller), which was free with Amazon Prime. I'm quite sure Donald Miller and his company are not sweating how much money they get from a Prime reader: getting anyone to read their book strengthens their overall sales funnel.

wccrawford 5y ago
A lot, but it's not just people like you. I buy quite a few books. Almost all digital now. I probably buy a book every other month now. It'd be more, except that... I also subscribe to Amazon Unlimited and read a lot of books on it. I never buy movies now. If the theatres were open, I'd see 2, maybe 3 movies in a year with my wife. The rest I watch on Netflix/etc when they come out for free. I watch maybe 6 movies a month, and 4 of those are because we have a virtual movie night with a lot of friends every week since Covid started. We watch a lot of TV, but again, Netflix/etc. We don't even pay for cable. We never buy TV series unless it's something really special.
ghaff 5y ago
While there are some that make meaningful amounts of money, all my experience suggests that writing non-fiction tech books for example, is overwhelmingly reputational. I certainly still own--though I've gotten rid of a fair number--a lot of books but, no, I don't read a lot any longer. Maybe about 10 a year which is probably 20% of what I once did.
lacker 5y ago
how many people like me does it take to support one professional writer? Back of the envelope, I would estimate authors get 1/4 of book sales as royalties, so you've sent $1000 to authors in your lifetime. I don't know how old you are, maybe that's $100/year since you were at book-buying age. If an author gets by on $30k/year then it takes 300 people like you to support a professional writer. That's not bad, really. If you watch 120 movies a year then you're probably supporting the movie industry more than the book industry but it sounds like you prefer movies to books anyway so that's fair.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Many problems with this analysis, I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to notice what they are.
FirstLvR 5y ago
when i was young and poor i wouldnt mind being a pirate but now, being a professional i wouldnt mind paying ... i would gladly pay $50 for winds of winter if GRRM could finish the book! look at the expanse saga on primevideo, the books were selling ok but now is a hit box world wide
weeblewobble 5y ago
I've been an Audible paid subscriber for 10 years. I have 138 audiobooks in my library. At $10/month, that means I've paid Audible $1200 for ~2000 hours of "reading". Using the 25% royalties mentioned in a child comment (no idea if that's accurate) I've paid authors only $300 for all of that. That seems super low! And I imagine I'm in the top quintile in terms of paying for "books".
snet0 5y ago
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my assumption is that buying second-hand books gives no money to the author. I don't know, morally speaking if this should be the case. It does feel wrong for people to get the experience without paying the price of admission. Can this be solved logistically, though? And do publishers factor this into their RRP?
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  Once you go down that path, it starts getting kind of dystopian. Should it be illegal for me to lend or give a book to a friend without paying a fee, because then they are "getting the experience without paying the price of admission"? I'm reading a book to three kids, should I have to pay more than reading the book to one kid? That's three times as many kids "getting the experience", same "price of admission"! Taking the book to my brothers house to read to his kids -- nope, that's illegal unless you buy another copy?
  - snet0 5y ago
    I absolutely agree, I don't think solving this problem is something that can really be considered. I do think it's a problem, though. I think you're taking my analogy of tickets too far, though. It was simply to highlight the fact that, by reading the book without paying the author a dime, you are getting permanent access to the materials without the author being paid, which I think is an issue. I think the only feasible solution is a kind of royalty fee on resales, but I can easily imagine this becoming a logistical nightmare. As I said, I'm not sure this problem has a workable solution.
    - jrochkind1 5y ago
      In fact, I think maybe in Europe second-hand bookstores do pay some kind of royalties? Maybe libraries do too? In the US, the "first sale doctrine" has legally preserved the right to give, rent, or sell an object legally in your possession, without the permission of the copyright holder. For 100 years (I believe the first sale doctrine was first established in 1908), it did not imperil the business of writing and selling books. In 2021, that market does seem imperiled, as the OP is about... but I don't think the 100-year-old first-sale doctrine is to blame, or eliminating it would fundamentally change the market forces. I mean, if it was the issue, then the market for books would be fundamentally different (and better for copyright holders) in Europe than the US, but is it?

wccrawford 5y ago

A lot, but it's not just people like you. I buy quite a few books. Almost all digital now. I probably buy a book every other month now. It'd be more, except that... I also subscribe to Amazon Unlimited and read a lot of books on it. I never buy movies now. If the theatres were open, I'd see 2, maybe 3 movies in a year with my wife. The rest I watch on Netflix/etc when they come out for free. I watch maybe 6 movies a month, and 4 of those are because we have a virtual movie night with a lot of friends every week since Covid started. We watch a lot of TV, but again, Netflix/etc. We don't even pay for cable. We never buy TV series unless it's something really special.

ghaff 5y ago

While there are some that make meaningful amounts of money, all my experience suggests that writing non-fiction tech books for example, is overwhelmingly reputational. I certainly still own--though I've gotten rid of a fair number--a lot of books but, no, I don't read a lot any longer. Maybe about 10 a year which is probably 20% of what I once did.

lacker 5y ago

how many people like me does it take to support one professional writer? Back of the envelope, I would estimate authors get 1/4 of book sales as royalties, so you've sent $1000 to authors in your lifetime. I don't know how old you are, maybe that's $100/year since you were at book-buying age. If an author gets by on $30k/year then it takes 300 people like you to support a professional writer. That's not bad, really. If you watch 120 movies a year then you're probably supporting the movie industry more than the book industry but it sounds like you prefer movies to books anyway so that's fair.

whimsicalism 5y ago
Many problems with this analysis, I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to notice what they are.

FirstLvR 5y ago

when i was young and poor i wouldnt mind being a pirate but now, being a professional i wouldnt mind paying ... i would gladly pay $50 for winds of winter if GRRM could finish the book! look at the expanse saga on primevideo, the books were selling ok but now is a hit box world wide

weeblewobble 5y ago

I've been an Audible paid subscriber for 10 years. I have 138 audiobooks in my library. At $10/month, that means I've paid Audible $1200 for ~2000 hours of "reading". Using the 25% royalties mentioned in a child comment (no idea if that's accurate) I've paid authors only $300 for all of that. That seems super low! And I imagine I'm in the top quintile in terms of paying for "books".

snet0 5y ago

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but my assumption is that buying second-hand books gives no money to the author. I don't know, morally speaking if this should be the case. It does feel wrong for people to get the experience without paying the price of admission. Can this be solved logistically, though? And do publishers factor this into their RRP?

jrochkind1 5y ago
Once you go down that path, it starts getting kind of dystopian. Should it be illegal for me to lend or give a book to a friend without paying a fee, because then they are "getting the experience without paying the price of admission"? I'm reading a book to three kids, should I have to pay more than reading the book to one kid? That's three times as many kids "getting the experience", same "price of admission"! Taking the book to my brothers house to read to his kids -- nope, that's illegal unless you buy another copy?
- snet0 5y ago
  I absolutely agree, I don't think solving this problem is something that can really be considered. I do think it's a problem, though. I think you're taking my analogy of tickets too far, though. It was simply to highlight the fact that, by reading the book without paying the author a dime, you are getting permanent access to the materials without the author being paid, which I think is an issue. I think the only feasible solution is a kind of royalty fee on resales, but I can easily imagine this becoming a logistical nightmare. As I said, I'm not sure this problem has a workable solution.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    In fact, I think maybe in Europe second-hand bookstores do pay some kind of royalties? Maybe libraries do too? In the US, the "first sale doctrine" has legally preserved the right to give, rent, or sell an object legally in your possession, without the permission of the copyright holder. For 100 years (I believe the first sale doctrine was first established in 1908), it did not imperil the business of writing and selling books. In 2021, that market does seem imperiled, as the OP is about... but I don't think the 100-year-old first-sale doctrine is to blame, or eliminating it would fundamentally change the market forces. I mean, if it was the issue, then the market for books would be fundamentally different (and better for copyright holders) in Europe than the US, but is it?