29 ms·

Having property the feds can't easily seize sounds like something only criminals would want (after all, I'm an honest citizen- I got nothing to hide, surely a b

Having property the feds can't easily seize sounds like something only criminals would want (after all, I'm an honest citizen- I got nothing to hide, surely a bank would be safer than my home) up until it happens to you.

ssalka 5y ago
so you wouldn't mind if the feds just seized your stored wealth? note, being a citizen in good standing with the law does not necessarily prevent this from happening. I don't understand why you would want it to be easy for your property to be seized. Lastly, the "I got nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy - as Snowden has said, it is analogous to being against freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  OP is saying it sounds like that, ”until it happens to you.”
- rideontime 5y ago
  Reread the entire comment you replied to.
salawat 5y ago
You'll be amazed how quickly odd bedfellows kicks in when you really consider that a police force by definition is essentially a socially sanctioned criminal organization. We have proof that law enforcement can: -Steal from you. (Civil Asset forfeiture, no warrant required) -Apply excessive force with good odds of not having to explain themselves. -Lie to your face. -kidnap you -Utilize illegal/unconstitutional investigation techniques, then launder the evidence through parallel construction. We also have proof that LE is nowhere near as good or thorough as they should be regulating themselves. The "I have nothing to hide" is spoken like someone who has never been on the wrong side of an automated, impersonal system before. It'sall fun and games and justifiable until it's you caught in the civil rights blast crater. I'd prefer no one ended up as collateral damage. It is better criminals go free than innocents get caught in dragnets.
- TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
  Law enforcement enforces laws. If they correctly do so, then their actions are not criminal. You may not like the laws theu enforce, but the way to address that is not to abolish LE, but to fix the law.
  - kemonocode 5y ago
    They shouldn't be above the laws they enforce, yet they typically are (e.g. qualified immunity). I agree with one thing though, the solution is not to abolish LE, but just as with asset seizure which is what TFA was about, checks and balances should be in place and should work properly.
  - Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
    The law doesn't matter when cops either don't know the law themselves or willfully and knowingly break the law because they know they'll get away with it. For example, the Supreme Court has ruled that you have a Constitutional right to record the police, and yet, some police are still trying to arrest people for recording them.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  By definition the police is a group of citizens employed to protect life and property, and bring law breaking individuals to the justice system. But if they are allowed to do what they want they don't care about definitions.
failwhaleshark 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
tomerv 5y ago
So many people here didn't fully comprehend your comment...
- kemonocode 5y ago
  Admittedly it was rather snarky, but the main takeaways remain the same: don't use safe deposit boxes and don't make it trivial to get your assets seized.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
newacct583 5y ago
> until it happens to you. I guess. In this case it's happening to a bunch of rich folks in Beverly Hills (literally) buying boxes from a seemingly-shady places called "US Private Vaults" (vs. say, the Wells Fargo down the street) that in fact appears to be under legitimate investigation. My "cry me a river" reflex is twitching hard, sorry. Reason is silent for decades as cops everywhere snatch property from minorities, but they decide to take a stand for their rich donors[1]? Ugh. [1] Per the article, the victim was a supporter. I'm not making this up. At least they disclosed it, I guess.
- sigstoat 5y ago
  > vs. say, the Wells Fargo down the street we've got other articles in this thread explaining how fewer and fewer local banks are offering safe deposit boxes, and they generally want out of the business. and indeed, how when they exit the business, they ship your stuff to a warehouse in alaska and lose it. so the business which does nothing but rent safe deposit boxes actually sounds like the reasonable place to do business with. > Reason is silent for decades as cops everywhere snatch property from minorities you're just making stuff up. https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ they've absolutely been writing about it for decades.
- lamontcg 5y ago
  > Reason is silent for decades... That is a pretty lazy and false accusation. They're a libertarian rag so they produces pages of articles on this topic every year: https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ Albeit they do have a tendency towards using very white people as victims.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

ssalka 5y ago

so you wouldn't mind if the feds just seized your stored wealth? note, being a citizen in good standing with the law does not necessarily prevent this from happening. I don't understand why you would want it to be easy for your property to be seized. Lastly, the "I got nothing to hide" argument is a fallacy - as Snowden has said, it is analogous to being against freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

colejohnson66 5y ago
OP is saying it sounds like that, ”until it happens to you.”
rideontime 5y ago
Reread the entire comment you replied to.

salawat 5y ago

You'll be amazed how quickly odd bedfellows kicks in when you really consider that a police force by definition is essentially a socially sanctioned criminal organization. We have proof that law enforcement can: -Steal from you. (Civil Asset forfeiture, no warrant required) -Apply excessive force with good odds of not having to explain themselves. -Lie to your face. -kidnap you -Utilize illegal/unconstitutional investigation techniques, then launder the evidence through parallel construction. We also have proof that LE is nowhere near as good or thorough as they should be regulating themselves. The "I have nothing to hide" is spoken like someone who has never been on the wrong side of an automated, impersonal system before. It'sall fun and games and justifiable until it's you caught in the civil rights blast crater. I'd prefer no one ended up as collateral damage. It is better criminals go free than innocents get caught in dragnets.

TheAdamAndChe 5y ago
Law enforcement enforces laws. If they correctly do so, then their actions are not criminal. You may not like the laws theu enforce, but the way to address that is not to abolish LE, but to fix the law.
- kemonocode 5y ago
  They shouldn't be above the laws they enforce, yet they typically are (e.g. qualified immunity). I agree with one thing though, the solution is not to abolish LE, but just as with asset seizure which is what TFA was about, checks and balances should be in place and should work properly.
- Sohcahtoa82 5y ago
  The law doesn't matter when cops either don't know the law themselves or willfully and knowingly break the law because they know they'll get away with it. For example, the Supreme Court has ruled that you have a Constitutional right to record the police, and yet, some police are still trying to arrest people for recording them.
wongarsu 5y ago
By definition the police is a group of citizens employed to protect life and property, and bring law breaking individuals to the justice system. But if they are allowed to do what they want they don't care about definitions.

failwhaleshark 5y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

tomerv 5y ago

So many people here didn't fully comprehend your comment...

kemonocode 5y ago
Admittedly it was rather snarky, but the main takeaways remain the same: don't use safe deposit boxes and don't make it trivial to get your assets seized.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

newacct583 5y ago

> until it happens to you. I guess. In this case it's happening to a bunch of rich folks in Beverly Hills (literally) buying boxes from a seemingly-shady places called "US Private Vaults" (vs. say, the Wells Fargo down the street) that in fact appears to be under legitimate investigation. My "cry me a river" reflex is twitching hard, sorry. Reason is silent for decades as cops everywhere snatch property from minorities, but they decide to take a stand for their rich donors[1]? Ugh. [1] Per the article, the victim was a supporter. I'm not making this up. At least they disclosed it, I guess.

sigstoat 5y ago
> vs. say, the Wells Fargo down the street we've got other articles in this thread explaining how fewer and fewer local banks are offering safe deposit boxes, and they generally want out of the business. and indeed, how when they exit the business, they ship your stuff to a warehouse in alaska and lose it. so the business which does nothing but rent safe deposit boxes actually sounds like the reasonable place to do business with. > Reason is silent for decades as cops everywhere snatch property from minorities you're just making stuff up. https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ they've absolutely been writing about it for decades.
lamontcg 5y ago
> Reason is silent for decades... That is a pretty lazy and false accusation. They're a libertarian rag so they produces pages of articles on this topic every year: https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ https://reason.com/tag/civil-asset-forfeiture/ Albeit they do have a tendency towards using very white people as victims.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]