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"And I don’t welcome a currency that’s so useful to kidnappers and extortionists and so forth" You mean like cash? I'm sorry, I'm sure Warren is a nice guy bu

"And I don’t welcome a currency that’s so useful to kidnappers and extortionists and so forth" You mean like cash? I'm sorry, I'm sure Warren is a nice guy but that picture reminds me of the Dukes in the movie Trading Places [1] with Eddie Murphy and Dan Aykroyd. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_Places https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trading_Places

guerrilla 6y ago
He probably does. In Sweden, everything is going cashless in the name of convenience and cracking down on tax avoidance.
- sschueller 6y ago
  The big tax avoiders don't horde cash.
  - passtheglass 6y ago
    It's for people who take cash in hand.
  - guerrilla 6y ago
    They mean black taxis, drug dealing, unlicensed second-hand stores, etc.
- andrepd 6y ago
  Another example of something which could be good but it's not because of surveillance.
- Qluxzz 6y ago
  Swede here. I cant even remember the last time I used cash. Used to get it from my grandmother for christmas but now they send it to me digitally as well. It was always a pain to get cash since you needed to find a place to deposit them into your account, and most banks don't even handle cash today. Most of all I hate getting change, people look at you funny here if you say keep the change in a regular store.
  - frereubu 6y ago
    My mum only just stopped giving me cheques...
maxqin1 6y ago
When was the last time you tried to move a million in cash? It's not that easy...
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  Yup; in $100 bills it weighs 10 kilos already.
- sschueller 6y ago
  1 bundle of 1,000 CHF (1,112.51 USD) notes is 100,000 CHF which is only 1cm thick [1]. So 10 would be 10cm which easily fits in a small bag. [1] https://www.bielertagblatt.ch/nachrichten/wirtschaft/eine-million-schweizer-franken-passen-ins-kleinste-fach https://www.bielertagblatt.ch/nachrichten/wirtschaft/eine-mi...
  - maxqin1 6y ago
    Thanks for the tip!
  - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
    But you would not be able to collect the cash from a bank without all kinds of due diligence, or process alarms going off.
    - sschueller 6y ago
      In Switzerland it used to be quite easy as the money belongs to you and you can do with it what you want. The only issue should be depositing large sums. If the banks make it harder and harder to get your money out then of course things like bitcoin are getting more popular.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
        I can't actually speak for Switzerland, it does have a reputation for "no questions asked" banking. Meanwhile, in other parts of the world, "Know Your Customer", "Due Diligence" and other Anti-Money-Laundering measure are important. (1) I think your last point is better phrased as "If the banks make it harder and harder to get your money out in bulk, without proof that your transaction is legal; then of course things like bitcoin will be used for the illegal transactions. And as a result the regulators will sooner or later regulate those too". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence
altcognito 6y ago
Ransomers don’t choose cash first, they choose Bitcoin, because they know it is safe.
- Valakas_ 6y ago
  Also traceable.
- stiltzkin 6y ago
  Bitcoin is not fungible, ransomers choose Monero.
NicoJuicy 6y ago
The logistics of moving cash is a problem on it's own.
betterunix2 6y ago
Not like cash. Collecting a cash ransom is risky since the police will watch the location where the ransom will be received. Receiving a cash ransom electronically is pointless since the account can be frozen the moment the victim is free. With Bitcoin, you can be anywhere when you receive the ransom, it cannot be frozen, and you can transact in Bitcoin far from any jurisdiction where you might be arrested.
antidaily 6y ago
A nice guy! The Dukes! You disrespectful shit.
frereubu 6y ago
The Proceeds of Crime Act in the UK makes it a duty for banks to know where large deposits come from. You walk into a bank where you haven't been depositing large sums of cash on a regular basis, with a clear rationale for having it (e.g. pre-Covid coffee shops), and you will very likely be asked to demonstrate where it came from. If you can't you're likely to have to forfeit the cash.
usrusr 6y ago
How many big computer sabotage extortion cases can you list that were handled by cash handover? That's an entire industry that simply did not exist prior to decentralised cross-boarder electronic value transfer. How long until this spreads to 20th century extortion schemes like point of sale product poisoning threats that never really picked up because transfer we such a headache?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

guerrilla 6y ago

He probably does. In Sweden, everything is going cashless in the name of convenience and cracking down on tax avoidance.

sschueller 6y ago
The big tax avoiders don't horde cash.
- passtheglass 6y ago
  It's for people who take cash in hand.
- guerrilla 6y ago
  They mean black taxis, drug dealing, unlicensed second-hand stores, etc.
andrepd 6y ago
Another example of something which could be good but it's not because of surveillance.
Qluxzz 6y ago
Swede here. I cant even remember the last time I used cash. Used to get it from my grandmother for christmas but now they send it to me digitally as well. It was always a pain to get cash since you needed to find a place to deposit them into your account, and most banks don't even handle cash today. Most of all I hate getting change, people look at you funny here if you say keep the change in a regular store.
- frereubu 6y ago
  My mum only just stopped giving me cheques...

maxqin1 6y ago

When was the last time you tried to move a million in cash? It's not that easy...

Cthulhu_ 6y ago
Yup; in $100 bills it weighs 10 kilos already.
sschueller 6y ago
1 bundle of 1,000 CHF (1,112.51 USD) notes is 100,000 CHF which is only 1cm thick [1]. So 10 would be 10cm which easily fits in a small bag. [1] https://www.bielertagblatt.ch/nachrichten/wirtschaft/eine-million-schweizer-franken-passen-ins-kleinste-fach https://www.bielertagblatt.ch/nachrichten/wirtschaft/eine-mi...
- maxqin1 6y ago
  Thanks for the tip!
- SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
  But you would not be able to collect the cash from a bank without all kinds of due diligence, or process alarms going off.
  - sschueller 6y ago
    In Switzerland it used to be quite easy as the money belongs to you and you can do with it what you want. The only issue should be depositing large sums. If the banks make it harder and harder to get your money out then of course things like bitcoin are getting more popular.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 6y ago
      I can't actually speak for Switzerland, it does have a reputation for "no questions asked" banking. Meanwhile, in other parts of the world, "Know Your Customer", "Due Diligence" and other Anti-Money-Laundering measure are important. (1) I think your last point is better phrased as "If the banks make it harder and harder to get your money out in bulk, without proof that your transaction is legal; then of course things like bitcoin will be used for the illegal transactions. And as a result the regulators will sooner or later regulate those too". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_your_customer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence

altcognito 6y ago

Ransomers don’t choose cash first, they choose Bitcoin, because they know it is safe.

Valakas_ 6y ago
Also traceable.
stiltzkin 6y ago
Bitcoin is not fungible, ransomers choose Monero.

NicoJuicy 6y ago

The logistics of moving cash is a problem on it's own.

betterunix2 6y ago

Not like cash. Collecting a cash ransom is risky since the police will watch the location where the ransom will be received. Receiving a cash ransom electronically is pointless since the account can be frozen the moment the victim is free. With Bitcoin, you can be anywhere when you receive the ransom, it cannot be frozen, and you can transact in Bitcoin far from any jurisdiction where you might be arrested.

antidaily 6y ago

A nice guy! The Dukes! You disrespectful shit.

frereubu 6y ago

The Proceeds of Crime Act in the UK makes it a duty for banks to know where large deposits come from. You walk into a bank where you haven't been depositing large sums of cash on a regular basis, with a clear rationale for having it (e.g. pre-Covid coffee shops), and you will very likely be asked to demonstrate where it came from. If you can't you're likely to have to forfeit the cash.

usrusr 6y ago

How many big computer sabotage extortion cases can you list that were handled by cash handover? That's an entire industry that simply did not exist prior to decentralised cross-boarder electronic value transfer. How long until this spreads to 20th century extortion schemes like point of sale product poisoning threats that never really picked up because transfer we such a headache?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]