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"the Cistercians are an ancient order that broke away from the Catholic Church in medieval times" (in the abstract). No way, sorry. If you start saying this, y

"the Cistercians are an ancient order that broke away from the Catholic Church in medieval times" (in the abstract). No way, sorry. If you start saying this, you have proved that whatever follows is totally unreliable.

smeej 5y ago
Agreed. It's also highly unusual to refer to them by the full "Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance" rather than their much more common and well-known name, "Trappists." It makes the whole article sound like it was written by someone who cares a lot about clothing and very little for the people who wear it and their reasons.
- unknown_apostle 5y ago
  Yes it's on a website on fashion, not a site focused on Christian spirituality :-) In the text of the interview, it doesn't say "broke away from the Catholic Church" but "from the Catholic rule". Which is also a confusing phrasing in itself and probably the source of the error found in the abstract.
  - cafard 5y ago
    They would have said that they returned to the Rule of St. Benedict in its full rigor, no?
- vmilner 5y ago
  Having spent a fair bit of time with them I think "Cistercians" is the term they prefer, at least in England, though the full OCSO is a bit of a mouthful.
phrogdriver 5y ago
It is even more striking that it's written in the first person, so the error sounds like it's coming from the monk and not the writer. For the HN reader not aware, the Cistercians "broke away" from the Benedictines in the 11th century and are still very much "in" the Catholic Church. My great uncle is a Trappist monk and I have great memories of visiting the monastery to see him as a child.
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
  So I'm obviously not a monk but I've known some and that doesn't surprise me too much. Outside of some orders that highly value education, I think monastic life generally discourages knowing things for the sake of knowing them. The political origins of a monastic order are not spiritually or theologically significant to a monk in that order really. Like sure they should know but I can imagine how it would come about that one would not.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    That's a bit of an ironic take considering medieval science and philosophy...
    - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
      I don't think their weighing of learning has changed just social needs changed around it. "Able to read the Bible" was considered important for monks so they were literate. It still is, but now everyone else is literate too so it's not notable anymore.
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        I think you should look into what medieval monks have done for science and philosophy. It wasn't just that they were literate. You're very much underestimating that.

smeej 5y ago

Agreed. It's also highly unusual to refer to them by the full "Order of Cistercians of the Strict Observance" rather than their much more common and well-known name, "Trappists." It makes the whole article sound like it was written by someone who cares a lot about clothing and very little for the people who wear it and their reasons.

unknown_apostle 5y ago
Yes it's on a website on fashion, not a site focused on Christian spirituality :-) In the text of the interview, it doesn't say "broke away from the Catholic Church" but "from the Catholic rule". Which is also a confusing phrasing in itself and probably the source of the error found in the abstract.
- cafard 5y ago
  They would have said that they returned to the Rule of St. Benedict in its full rigor, no?
vmilner 5y ago
Having spent a fair bit of time with them I think "Cistercians" is the term they prefer, at least in England, though the full OCSO is a bit of a mouthful.

phrogdriver 5y ago

It is even more striking that it's written in the first person, so the error sounds like it's coming from the monk and not the writer. For the HN reader not aware, the Cistercians "broke away" from the Benedictines in the 11th century and are still very much "in" the Catholic Church. My great uncle is a Trappist monk and I have great memories of visiting the monastery to see him as a child.

8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
So I'm obviously not a monk but I've known some and that doesn't surprise me too much. Outside of some orders that highly value education, I think monastic life generally discourages knowing things for the sake of knowing them. The political origins of a monastic order are not spiritually or theologically significant to a monk in that order really. Like sure they should know but I can imagine how it would come about that one would not.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  That's a bit of an ironic take considering medieval science and philosophy...
  - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 5y ago
    I don't think their weighing of learning has changed just social needs changed around it. "Able to read the Bible" was considered important for monks so they were literate. It still is, but now everyone else is literate too so it's not notable anymore.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      I think you should look into what medieval monks have done for science and philosophy. It wasn't just that they were literate. You're very much underestimating that.