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Maybe I phrased it badly. I think he's viewed too positively / heroically even, I think that's not warranted at all. And his actions should be re-evaluated. Bu

Maybe I phrased it badly. I think he's viewed too positively / heroically even, I think that's not warranted at all. And his actions should be re-evaluated. But I'm not a historian, just a guy who likes reading and I haven't read anything yet that justifies for example when a modern day French Presidents honors Napoleon.

asd4232 5y ago
Yeah, it's one thing to question how historical figures are portrayed, and another to support actively erasing historical figures who did bad things by present day's moral standards. I think it's best to remember history as it is, no worship or mixing it with present-day politics needed. Learning from history can be useful, but actions of historical individuals should also be seen in context of the world they lived in.
Foobar8568 5y ago
Read a bit about the French revolution, related wars or what Napoleon has done for France before spouting such non-sense.
hef19898 5y ago
There is the Code Napoleon, parts of which still form the basis of law in Germany and France. That was pretty progressive. Napoleon also is one the most successful, "best", military leaders in history. Right up there with people like Alexander the Great. His military reforms more or less paved the way for modern militaries ever since. Historically, most of the Anti-French coalitions were led, and financed, by the British. So they are as much guilty of the Napoleonic Wars as Napoleon himself. Do yes, Napoleon definitely is on of history's greats. Definitely worth remembering. And he would be even more so if he was a true class a a-hole. These people definitely should never be forgotten.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- somedangedname 5y ago
  Also he inspired this excellent chart with his disastrous Russian campaign: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Minard.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Minard.p... Trigger warning: dead Frenchmen.
- nickik 5y ago
  > Napoleon also is one the most successful, "best", military leaders in history. The "best" most successful leaders don't get soundly beaten over and over again and eventually lose everything. > Right up there with people like Alexander the Great. Highly questionable, Alexander the Great actually won and won everywhere and didn't lose his empire until he died. Napoleon is vastly overestimated in Western history. Not to mention that he left his solderers behind multiple times after his mistakes had gotten them captured over and over again. He literally was the commander in control of the worst military failure in basically all of human history. He had initiative and was a good battle leader at the helm of the most powerful country that was already very successful before he took over, but as all around military commander and strategist he had serious problems. > Historically, most of the Anti-French coalitions were led, and financed, by the British. So they are as much guilty of the Napoleonic Wars as Napoleon himself. The British are responsible French revolutionary armies moving into Netherlands, Norther Italy, Egypt and Switzerland? Britain is responsible for Napoleon leading 600k people into Russia? After the Revolution the Revolutionary government including were seriously attempting to expand in all directions peace was very temporary. Russia tried peace with Napoleon but only subservience was good enough and that trigger an invasion. > Do yes, Napoleon definitely is on of history's greats. Definitely worth remembering. And he would be even more so if he was a true class a a-hole. These people definitely should never be forgotten. I agree he should be remembered, as most history should.
  - hef19898 5y ago
    Napoleon blundered the Russian campaign, and as a direct result the Spanish one. Which got him to Elba. Only to come back and get a very close loss at Waterloo. That makes two serious defeats. All other campaigns were won since Egypt. Wellington was a worthy opponent so. Was he power hungry? Sure. More than others? I don't think so, just more successful. Russia, at that time, was the only continental power left as a potential ally of the British. Which had opposed the French in every single war before. So yes, it was a viable campaign. One that cost him everything in the end. It was, IMHO, the last period which allowed for decisive battles. And Napoleon was really good at those. He had issues in diplomacy. No surprise as the upstart among old nobility, so. And his economic policies were lacking as well. Doesn't mean that he is among the best military leaders so far. And again, a lot of his policies were really progressive. And sure, he built upon the Revolution. Nobody exists in a vacuum, Alexander built on his father's achievements. Ceasar on the Roman Republic. Just like everyone else.
DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
> when a modern day French Presidents Sorry need to pick on the word "modern" because it insinuates these things only happened in the past and are out of the question today when we just have adapted the techniques to get away. Therefore I much recommend Treasure Island[1] which goes into the crimes of "modern" colonialism (French, British, US). In case of France especially interesting is Gabon and it's role until today in financing and legitimizing French wars. If one believes only a fraction of the things in this book it would justify the same language applied to our current systems. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_and_the_Men_Who_Stole_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_a...
misiti3780 5y ago
No? read this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00INIXLPW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00INIXLPW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...

asd4232 5y ago

Yeah, it's one thing to question how historical figures are portrayed, and another to support actively erasing historical figures who did bad things by present day's moral standards. I think it's best to remember history as it is, no worship or mixing it with present-day politics needed. Learning from history can be useful, but actions of historical individuals should also be seen in context of the world they lived in.

Foobar8568 5y ago

Read a bit about the French revolution, related wars or what Napoleon has done for France before spouting such non-sense.

hef19898 5y ago

There is the Code Napoleon, parts of which still form the basis of law in Germany and France. That was pretty progressive. Napoleon also is one the most successful, "best", military leaders in history. Right up there with people like Alexander the Great. His military reforms more or less paved the way for modern militaries ever since. Historically, most of the Anti-French coalitions were led, and financed, by the British. So they are as much guilty of the Napoleonic Wars as Napoleon himself. Do yes, Napoleon definitely is on of history's greats. Definitely worth remembering. And he would be even more so if he was a true class a a-hole. These people definitely should never be forgotten.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
somedangedname 5y ago
Also he inspired this excellent chart with his disastrous Russian campaign: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Minard.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/29/Minard.p... Trigger warning: dead Frenchmen.
nickik 5y ago
> Napoleon also is one the most successful, "best", military leaders in history. The "best" most successful leaders don't get soundly beaten over and over again and eventually lose everything. > Right up there with people like Alexander the Great. Highly questionable, Alexander the Great actually won and won everywhere and didn't lose his empire until he died. Napoleon is vastly overestimated in Western history. Not to mention that he left his solderers behind multiple times after his mistakes had gotten them captured over and over again. He literally was the commander in control of the worst military failure in basically all of human history. He had initiative and was a good battle leader at the helm of the most powerful country that was already very successful before he took over, but as all around military commander and strategist he had serious problems. > Historically, most of the Anti-French coalitions were led, and financed, by the British. So they are as much guilty of the Napoleonic Wars as Napoleon himself. The British are responsible French revolutionary armies moving into Netherlands, Norther Italy, Egypt and Switzerland? Britain is responsible for Napoleon leading 600k people into Russia? After the Revolution the Revolutionary government including were seriously attempting to expand in all directions peace was very temporary. Russia tried peace with Napoleon but only subservience was good enough and that trigger an invasion. > Do yes, Napoleon definitely is on of history's greats. Definitely worth remembering. And he would be even more so if he was a true class a a-hole. These people definitely should never be forgotten. I agree he should be remembered, as most history should.
- hef19898 5y ago
  Napoleon blundered the Russian campaign, and as a direct result the Spanish one. Which got him to Elba. Only to come back and get a very close loss at Waterloo. That makes two serious defeats. All other campaigns were won since Egypt. Wellington was a worthy opponent so. Was he power hungry? Sure. More than others? I don't think so, just more successful. Russia, at that time, was the only continental power left as a potential ally of the British. Which had opposed the French in every single war before. So yes, it was a viable campaign. One that cost him everything in the end. It was, IMHO, the last period which allowed for decisive battles. And Napoleon was really good at those. He had issues in diplomacy. No surprise as the upstart among old nobility, so. And his economic policies were lacking as well. Doesn't mean that he is among the best military leaders so far. And again, a lot of his policies were really progressive. And sure, he built upon the Revolution. Nobody exists in a vacuum, Alexander built on his father's achievements. Ceasar on the Roman Republic. Just like everyone else.

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago

> when a modern day French Presidents Sorry need to pick on the word "modern" because it insinuates these things only happened in the past and are out of the question today when we just have adapted the techniques to get away. Therefore I much recommend Treasure Island[1] which goes into the crimes of "modern" colonialism (French, British, US). In case of France especially interesting is Gabon and it's role until today in financing and legitimizing French wars. If one believes only a fraction of the things in this book it would justify the same language applied to our current systems. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_and_the_Men_Who_Stole_the_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Islands:_Tax_Havens_a...

misiti3780 5y ago

No? read this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00INIXLPW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00INIXLPW/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?...