5 ms·

> It means drivers in 18 states can work extra or more flexible hours when transporting gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other refined petroleum products. This m

by jb775 5y ago

> It means drivers in 18 states can work extra or more flexible hours when transporting gasoline, diesel, jet fuel and other refined petroleum products. This means truck drivers hauling 45,500+ lbs of an extremely flammable liquid aren't required to sleep. I worked in the supply chain industry for a few years, dropping these restrictions is unheard of. My instinct tells me this issue is a lot worse than it seems now.

waihtis 5y ago
Could be that, or the heightened sensitivity to all issues cyber we’re experiencing right now
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
Armchair take: The pipelines handle a lot of fuel, and the US needs / uses a lot of fuel; to move the same amount, you need a lot of trucks. And if that need is not met, the economy etc will be disrupted heavily, price of fuel will go up, and the price of fuel going up has caused massive issues in the past.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  Last time I checked the amount of sleep I need doesn't go down when an oil pipeline stops flowing. It's offloading the risk to drivers to benefit these companies first and foremost, which is ridiculous. The cherry on top is the article pointing out even with the extra hours they won't be anywhere near meeting demand...
dmix 5y ago
Don't trucks transport fuel like this all the time? Or maybe it's the quantity.
- vladvasiliu 5y ago
  They do, but to me GP's issue is with relaxing the requirements for rest. IE, the issue isn't that drivers transport fuel, but that possibly tired drivers do so.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    Everyone here is failing to read between the lines. Nobody in trucking gripes about limited working hours. The current hours per week available for work are more than enough to work at an unsustainable rate of sleep. What everyone bitches about is the electronic logging requirements that prevent them from cooking the books in order to account for delays that happen over the normal course of business. Because people can no longer cook the books they do other things that increase risk. For political and optical reasons the DOT can't exempt them from e-logs to make their lives easier. So they just exempt them from all of it. They're basically saying "if you're gonna push yourselves we'd rather you cut the smart corner and work a 12hr day than drive around like maniacs trying to fit X hours of driving in a Y hour window."
- Arrath 5y ago
  Absolutely they do, but with the pipeline down its a volume and distance issue. Normally the pipeline would pump huge amounts of fuel around to various distribution centers where trucks and tankers would then haul it the last leg to e.g. gas stations and other end users. Now there will be far fewer distribution centers to pick up the load from, and much longer distances to drive to deliver the product. Naturally a pipeline has much greater capacity than a string of trucks, not to mention the impacts on traffic and safety concerns that go with pushing the truck drivers that far. The limited number of distribution points with the pipeline offline will probably have a logistical impact as well since there will be an imbalance re: how many trucks are arriving to get filled up.
dmurray 5y ago
Will there be enough extra tanker-hours and tired tanker-hours to see a statistically significant upturn in accidents and deaths?
- enkid 5y ago
  It's definitely a good natural experiment on the efficacy of these types of laws.
- jb775 5y ago
  I don't think so. These drivers need more specialized training, and the type of equipment they haul is different. Plus I'd imagine your mindset is different when you have a swimming pool's amount of oil a few feet behind you compared to a bunch of toilet paper or whatever.
Telemakhos 5y ago
No, that part of the regulations (the 10 hour break requirement) specifically does not get suspended in an emergency, if I recall correctly, but federal qualifications for new drivers do, so maybe someone otherwise hauling oranges from Florida might drive a tanker while the normal driver has a day off. Plus, this is only federal law; state laws still apply, and it is state troopers who pull you over, not feds.
jcadam 5y ago
And I thought we were already facing a nationwide shortage of qualified tanker truck drivers. On the bright side, these guys will be making mega-bucks on overtime, provided they can stay awake. coffee and no-doz will only take you so far.

by jb775 5y ago

waihtis 5y ago

Could be that, or the heightened sensitivity to all issues cyber we’re experiencing right now

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

Armchair take: The pipelines handle a lot of fuel, and the US needs / uses a lot of fuel; to move the same amount, you need a lot of trucks. And if that need is not met, the economy etc will be disrupted heavily, price of fuel will go up, and the price of fuel going up has caused massive issues in the past.

BoorishBears 5y ago
Last time I checked the amount of sleep I need doesn't go down when an oil pipeline stops flowing. It's offloading the risk to drivers to benefit these companies first and foremost, which is ridiculous. The cherry on top is the article pointing out even with the extra hours they won't be anywhere near meeting demand...

dmix 5y ago

Don't trucks transport fuel like this all the time? Or maybe it's the quantity.

vladvasiliu 5y ago
They do, but to me GP's issue is with relaxing the requirements for rest. IE, the issue isn't that drivers transport fuel, but that possibly tired drivers do so.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  Everyone here is failing to read between the lines. Nobody in trucking gripes about limited working hours. The current hours per week available for work are more than enough to work at an unsustainable rate of sleep. What everyone bitches about is the electronic logging requirements that prevent them from cooking the books in order to account for delays that happen over the normal course of business. Because people can no longer cook the books they do other things that increase risk. For political and optical reasons the DOT can't exempt them from e-logs to make their lives easier. So they just exempt them from all of it. They're basically saying "if you're gonna push yourselves we'd rather you cut the smart corner and work a 12hr day than drive around like maniacs trying to fit X hours of driving in a Y hour window."
Arrath 5y ago
Absolutely they do, but with the pipeline down its a volume and distance issue. Normally the pipeline would pump huge amounts of fuel around to various distribution centers where trucks and tankers would then haul it the last leg to e.g. gas stations and other end users. Now there will be far fewer distribution centers to pick up the load from, and much longer distances to drive to deliver the product. Naturally a pipeline has much greater capacity than a string of trucks, not to mention the impacts on traffic and safety concerns that go with pushing the truck drivers that far. The limited number of distribution points with the pipeline offline will probably have a logistical impact as well since there will be an imbalance re: how many trucks are arriving to get filled up.

dmurray 5y ago

Will there be enough extra tanker-hours and tired tanker-hours to see a statistically significant upturn in accidents and deaths?

enkid 5y ago
It's definitely a good natural experiment on the efficacy of these types of laws.
jb775 5y ago
I don't think so. These drivers need more specialized training, and the type of equipment they haul is different. Plus I'd imagine your mindset is different when you have a swimming pool's amount of oil a few feet behind you compared to a bunch of toilet paper or whatever.

Telemakhos 5y ago

No, that part of the regulations (the 10 hour break requirement) specifically does not get suspended in an emergency, if I recall correctly, but federal qualifications for new drivers do, so maybe someone otherwise hauling oranges from Florida might drive a tanker while the normal driver has a day off. Plus, this is only federal law; state laws still apply, and it is state troopers who pull you over, not feds.

jcadam 5y ago

And I thought we were already facing a nationwide shortage of qualified tanker truck drivers. On the bright side, these guys will be making mega-bucks on overtime, provided they can stay awake. coffee and no-doz will only take you so far.