4 ms·

Pound for pound I'd say Israel. In absolute terms I'm pretty sure China has us at sea and in cyber so... Not the US

by ticviking 5y ago

boringg 5y ago
Pretty sure china doesn't have the oceans - might want to check up on your stats.
- bob_theslob646 5y ago
  Not to be rude but I'm pretty sure you need to check up on your stats. The Chinese do have the oceans. >Citing the Office of Naval Intelligence, a Congressional Research Service report from March notes that the People’s Liberation Army Navy, or PLAN, was slated to have 360 battle force ships by the end of 2020, dwarfing the U.S. fleet of 297 ships. [1](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/04/12/chinas-navy-has-more-ships-than-the-us-does-that-matter/ https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/04/12/chinas-n...)
  - edholland 5y ago
    without significant aircraft carrier fleet i'm not sure china has dominant control of any seas, despite best efforts in south china seas [1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_programme#Current_status https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_progr...)
    - bob_theslob646 5y ago
      https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/china/china-world-biggest-navy-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/china/china-world-biggest-nav... I am not sure what your point is. By number of ships, they are the biggest. I have no idea how important aircraft carrier fleet is.
      - pbourke 5y ago
        > I have no idea how important aircraft carrier fleet is. It’s the most important part of a modern blue water navy and has been since WW2. The US also has a world-dominating submarine fleet.
      - boringg 5y ago
        Biggest by number, not by capability or weight. There are significant differences as a result. I.e. who cares if you have the most swordsmen on the planet, if you in a gunfight.
  - objectivetruth 5y ago
    Your own link points out that they don't have allied support nor the capability to do sustained blue-water operations, and that the US retains naval dominance.
  - throwaway20148 5y ago
    Bath Iron Works is hiring people on the spot right now. They are probably going to hire 3k people in the next year. I imagine this is happening at other shipyards around the country. Expect those ship numbers to be revised upwards.
  - RhodoGSA 5y ago
    Air Craft carriers and jets were proven in WW2 to be the big differentiator. US took note and has more than the entire world combined. 'Battle force ships' is a very loose term and your source only includes navy resources. You forget we have Army, Air force, Marines and not to forget coast guard that all have their own watercraft. Also, don't know if you've been seeing some of the new SWISS ships the US have been developing. Very small, hyper fast ships with a crew of 6 or less with a crazy amount of firepower in terms of AA, 50 cal, even torpedos. Those aren't categorized as 'Battle Force Ships'. Also, despite the huge waste that is inherent in it - no one has bases like the US does. We have forward operating bases all over the middle east, geographically separated units all over east europe, africa, asian pacific, and military bases all over europe and every key point of the united states. Nasa never quite got launches down but we do have some of the most advanced satellite, imagery and other military instruments. look up number of military spacecraft by country. Whether it's moral or not is an entirely different question, but there is a reason the international monetary fund has a weight 44% USD; It's not because all the other countries like us that's for sure.
    - totoglazer 5y ago
      Can’t find anything about the SWISS ships but curious to learn more, if you could provide a link.
      - RhodoGSA 5y ago
        opps - it's SWCC*. Can't seem to find the heavier version, but it was based on the SOC-R. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Craft_%E2%80%93_Riverine_(SOC-R) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Craft_%E2%8...
  - boringg 5y ago
    I don't dispute the ability for China to produce more ships than the US or have more ships. By tonnage they are still less than half the size of the the US fleet and they aren't in control of the oceans. I'm not saying that won't change I am merely flagging OP statements as inaccurate. Don't worry I don't take your comments as rude.

Pound for pound I'd say Israel. In absolute terms I'm pretty sure China has us at sea and in cyber so... Not the US

boringg 5y ago

Pretty sure china doesn't have the oceans - might want to check up on your stats.

bob_theslob646 5y ago
Not to be rude but I'm pretty sure you need to check up on your stats. The Chinese do have the oceans. >Citing the Office of Naval Intelligence, a Congressional Research Service report from March notes that the People’s Liberation Army Navy, or PLAN, was slated to have 360 battle force ships by the end of 2020, dwarfing the U.S. fleet of 297 ships. [1](https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/04/12/chinas-navy-has-more-ships-than-the-us-does-that-matter/ https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-navy/2021/04/12/chinas-n...)
- edholland 5y ago
  without significant aircraft carrier fleet i'm not sure china has dominant control of any seas, despite best efforts in south china seas [1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_programme#Current_status https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_aircraft_carrier_progr...)
  - bob_theslob646 5y ago
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/china/china-world-biggest-navy-intl-hnk-ml-dst/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/05/china/china-world-biggest-nav... I am not sure what your point is. By number of ships, they are the biggest. I have no idea how important aircraft carrier fleet is.
    - pbourke 5y ago
      > I have no idea how important aircraft carrier fleet is. It’s the most important part of a modern blue water navy and has been since WW2. The US also has a world-dominating submarine fleet.
    - boringg 5y ago
      Biggest by number, not by capability or weight. There are significant differences as a result. I.e. who cares if you have the most swordsmen on the planet, if you in a gunfight.
- objectivetruth 5y ago
  Your own link points out that they don't have allied support nor the capability to do sustained blue-water operations, and that the US retains naval dominance.
- throwaway20148 5y ago
  Bath Iron Works is hiring people on the spot right now. They are probably going to hire 3k people in the next year. I imagine this is happening at other shipyards around the country. Expect those ship numbers to be revised upwards.
- RhodoGSA 5y ago
  Air Craft carriers and jets were proven in WW2 to be the big differentiator. US took note and has more than the entire world combined. 'Battle force ships' is a very loose term and your source only includes navy resources. You forget we have Army, Air force, Marines and not to forget coast guard that all have their own watercraft. Also, don't know if you've been seeing some of the new SWISS ships the US have been developing. Very small, hyper fast ships with a crew of 6 or less with a crazy amount of firepower in terms of AA, 50 cal, even torpedos. Those aren't categorized as 'Battle Force Ships'. Also, despite the huge waste that is inherent in it - no one has bases like the US does. We have forward operating bases all over the middle east, geographically separated units all over east europe, africa, asian pacific, and military bases all over europe and every key point of the united states. Nasa never quite got launches down but we do have some of the most advanced satellite, imagery and other military instruments. look up number of military spacecraft by country. Whether it's moral or not is an entirely different question, but there is a reason the international monetary fund has a weight 44% USD; It's not because all the other countries like us that's for sure.
  - totoglazer 5y ago
    Can’t find anything about the SWISS ships but curious to learn more, if you could provide a link.
    - RhodoGSA 5y ago
      opps - it's SWCC*. Can't seem to find the heavier version, but it was based on the SOC-R. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Craft_%E2%80%93_Riverine_(SOC-R) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Operations_Craft_%E2%8...
- boringg 5y ago
  I don't dispute the ability for China to produce more ships than the US or have more ships. By tonnage they are still less than half the size of the the US fleet and they aren't in control of the oceans. I'm not saying that won't change I am merely flagging OP statements as inaccurate. Don't worry I don't take your comments as rude.