5 ms·

If the first remains were found in 1939, how was there a gap of 80+ years before further remains were found? Is there someone who's familiar with archeology who

by rmk 5y ago

If the first remains were found in 1939, how was there a gap of 80+ years before further remains were found? Is there someone who's familiar with archeology who can explain how?

bena 5y ago
Fossilization is rare. It's as simple as that.
- masklinn 5y ago
  You might have misunderstood GP's question: remains were found in this exact cave in 1939, they're wondering why there's such a gap in a cave known to have held fossils. Dozens of remains have been found elsewhere in europe in the meantime. There have been so many such discoveries that the Wikipedia List of Neanderthal fossils doesn't even bother listing them, only a dozen "notable" finds.
- rmk 5y ago
  Yes, I understand that fossilization is rare, but that makes it even more puzzling: you'd want to dig furiously if you did find remains in a confined area.
  - bena 5y ago
    Cave systems can be quite large. It could have taken 80 years to get through enough of the cave. And then you have to consider it's a variation of the halting problem. Until you find something, you can't know if you're actually going to find something or nothing. So do you keep digging in this spot or do you move to another spot? So while they already found remains in this cave, the new remains probably weren't in the immediate area. 5 days, 5 years, 50 years, none of those timeframes would be surprising. It all tracks.
  - RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
    There is a definite policy among some paleontological research groups to intentionally not excavate a site fully, understanding that techniques and technologies will improve with time, and they understand that current methods may limit futures researchers ability to do their work.
masklinn 5y ago
Looking at NESPOS, it seems like there have been minor discoveries (mandibles) in 2002: https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887333 https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887333 https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887335 https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887335 > Is there someone who's familiar with archeology who can explain how? Lack of funding, lack of opportunity, ill-luck, the site might be large as well so if the fossils were not obviously visible it can take a long time to find them, especially as you'd want to be very careful in order to avoid both damaging fossils and damaging (and possibly bringing down) the cave itself.

by rmk 5y ago

If the first remains were found in 1939, how was there a gap of 80+ years before further remains were found? Is there someone who's familiar with archeology who can explain how?

bena 5y ago

Fossilization is rare. It's as simple as that.

masklinn 5y ago
You might have misunderstood GP's question: remains were found in this exact cave in 1939, they're wondering why there's such a gap in a cave known to have held fossils. Dozens of remains have been found elsewhere in europe in the meantime. There have been so many such discoveries that the Wikipedia List of Neanderthal fossils doesn't even bother listing them, only a dozen "notable" finds.
rmk 5y ago
Yes, I understand that fossilization is rare, but that makes it even more puzzling: you'd want to dig furiously if you did find remains in a confined area.
- bena 5y ago
  Cave systems can be quite large. It could have taken 80 years to get through enough of the cave. And then you have to consider it's a variation of the halting problem. Until you find something, you can't know if you're actually going to find something or nothing. So do you keep digging in this spot or do you move to another spot? So while they already found remains in this cave, the new remains probably weren't in the immediate area. 5 days, 5 years, 50 years, none of those timeframes would be surprising. It all tracks.
- RosanaAnaDana 5y ago
  There is a definite policy among some paleontological research groups to intentionally not excavate a site fully, understanding that techniques and technologies will improve with time, and they understand that current methods may limit futures researchers ability to do their work.

masklinn 5y ago

Looking at NESPOS, it seems like there have been minor discoveries (mandibles) in 2002: https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887333 https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887333 https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887335 https://www.nespos.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=29887335 > Is there someone who's familiar with archeology who can explain how? Lack of funding, lack of opportunity, ill-luck, the site might be large as well so if the fossils were not obviously visible it can take a long time to find them, especially as you'd want to be very careful in order to avoid both damaging fossils and damaging (and possibly bringing down) the cave itself.