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According to the same chart, conscientious people also seem to perform significantly better in college than everyone else. In the modern world, better GPAs are
by kijin 5y ago
According to the same chart, conscientious people also seem to perform significantly better in college than everyone else. In the modern world, better GPAs are usually correlated with higher income.
Interestingly, those people don't seem to do particularly well in the SAT. Perhaps their abilities are "unlocked" to the fullest only after they get into college and get a chance to make independent decisions.
- Judgmentality 5y ago> Interestingly, those people don't seem to do particularly well in the SAT. Perhaps their abilities are "unlocked" to the fullest only after they get into college and get a chance to make independent decisions. Or maybe the SAT is just a shitty test.
- maxqin1 5y agoFor whom? The real problem is that not all valuable paths can come to the same bottleneck. Med student? Well, the SAT might be a good indicator of how successful you'll be at completing a medical program in the US. Same thing for law. Are you the creative type? Then the SAT probably won't be as indicative of your future success.
- austincheney 5y agoI have around a 148 IQ but scored only 1060 on the SAT. Clearly those two measures are not linked. This has not prevented me from earning a 4 year degree or becoming a software developer. I find writing software to be easy while many of my peers seem to struggle. In reflection personality and practice are all that have mattered. IQ isn’t a significant consideration of comfort/confidence in writing software, a skill.
- maxqin1 5y ago> I have around a 148 That's rather impressive, but I would double-check those numbers. For example, which IQ test? Was it recently updated? IQ tests are adjusted by as many as 10 points every 10 years [1]. Have you double verified with another test? How did you prepare for each? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect
- austincheney 5y agoI am not that concerned. The number is as important to me as my exceedingly unimpressive SAT score.
- saiya-jin 5y agowell then it shouldn't be used as main point of your argument
- austincheney 5y agoI think you are confusing a relevant but worthless data point for something of value. I guess there are people that attach emotional significance to such things, but it’s just some number that made a valid argument. If I don’t care and it’s my number why do you or anybody else care? Why should I not use this number to make a valid argument?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- akomtu 5y agoI think a good IQ test would be finding isomorphic graphs. A typical question would be: here's a graph with 7 nodes, tell which of the 4 graphs below it matches.
- SneakyTornado29 5y agoLol i just learned about these today
- kortex 5y agoIndeed. SAT is basically "how good are you at cramming a bunch of relatively arbitrary information into your brain and regurgitating it in a high pressure, timed scenario". That is a kind of intelligence, but there are very few occupations where that kind of intelligence is useful. Lawyers and doctors. Both the "intensely study something rather uninteresting" and "perform under high stress and time demand" are specific kinds of intelligence, and I happen to know many intelligent folks who are expressly bad at it. They don't "test well". Anecdotally, diligent study and fast-testing are anti-correlated in many of these smart folks.
- ex_amazon_sde 5y agoSAT is more "how good AND MOTIVATED are you at cramming a bunch of relatively arbitrary information into your brain"
- mycologos 5y ago> cramming a bunch of relatively arbitrary information into your brain What? Most of the SAT is evaluating high school-level math, writing, and reading skills. It's not like they're asking you to memorize historical dates or names or poems or formulas. Maybe the relatively narrow part of the test on vocabulary falls into this category, but even those words are almost entirely things you'll just pick up if you like reading books. And, now that I'm looking into it, only 10 out of 52 questions in the reading section are even about vocabulary [1]. You can skip 9 of them and still get a 700 on reading/writing [2]. Assuming you get an 800 on math, that's a 98th percentile total score and a 90th percentile on reading/writing alone [3], with almost no vocabulary prep. I agree about the high pressure aspect, there doesn't seem to be a good way around that. [1] https://www.kaptest.com/study/sat/whats-tested-on-the-sat-vocabulary/ https://www.kaptest.com/study/sat/whats-tested-on-the-sat-vo... [2] https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-many-questions-can-you-skip-for-a-good-sat-score https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-many-questions-can-you-skip... [3] https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-percentiles-and-score-rankings https://blog.prepscholar.com/sat-percentiles-and-score-ranki...
- fighterpilot 5y agoBut they are linked. Studies have shown a very high correlation. One outlier doesn't change the high correlation.
- lr4444lr 5y agoIQ strongly correlates with SAT score, IIRC. If you have a 148 IQ, I bet a capable tutor could train you to score a good deal higher than 1060.
- austincheney 5y agoA good tutor and sufficient preparation time should be enough to transform anybody into an SAT expert. If that is the case and this indicates a person with low IQ can score high on the test then potentially everybody is potentially an outlier, which then isn’t an outlier at all.
- paulpauper 5y agothey are positively correlated. your outlier does not invalidate the relation between the variables.
- LudwigNagasena 5y agoSAT and IQ are strongly correlated, you are an outlier.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- the-dude 5y ago> Perhaps their abilities are "unlocked" to the fullest My impression is conscientious people work within the system and don't toe the line. edit: disclosure, I am highly unconscientious, didn't finish uni etc.
- sokoloff 5y ago“Toe the line” is pretty much a synonym to work within the system.
- the-dude 5y agoAh, right! Not a native speaker, got that wrong-way-round and double-up. Thanks.
- sokoloff 5y agoNo problem. I am a native speaker and it seems a weird expression to me as well (so much that I had to look it up to be sure). I’d expect it to mean what your original usage was. Don’t get me started on “flammable vs inflammable” vs “accurate vs inaccurate” ;)
- the-dude 5y agoJust for the record : I would put my toe over the line. A bit.
- DangitBobby 5y agoMy understanding of the phrase "toe the line" was to express that someone is technically within limits but is intentionally testing the boundaries of their limits, but apparently this is not accurate. TIL.
- HPsquared 5y agoPerhaps the SAT is more like an IQ test (where a "quick wit" is advantageous), and college grades are based more on sustained performance, planning, meeting deadlines etc. These are very different things.
- jollybean 5y agoGetting good grades is a grind. Being 'sufficiently smart' - plus - being organized, diligent, applying yourself consistently, will probably get you better grades than being a disorganized genius. If everyone had the same IQ, then University grades would be actually a really, really good measure of raw conscientiousness.
- paulpauper 5y agobut some courses are easier than others though
- fallingknife 5y agoGrades are shockingly dependent on completing busywork on time, so I am not at all surprised that conscientiousness beats intelligence there.