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They're not unrelated subjects. A lot of crypto operates much in the same way dark pool finance operates. It's unregulated & opaque. This is prime territory for

They're not unrelated subjects. A lot of crypto operates much in the same way dark pool finance operates. It's unregulated & opaque. This is prime territory for both scams and other criminal activities.

lucasyvas 5y ago
You're not wrong - but considering we failed to stop p2p file sharing how does anyone expect us to stop this? The music industry railed against stuff like Napster and got literally nowhere in the grand scheme of things. We are watching a repeat of history and apparently nobody learned a thing the first time.
- ethanbond 5y ago
  I don’t think I know anyone who frequently pirates music anymore… Mostly due to superior products coming out (Rdio, Spotify) but given that a founder of Spotify was involved in the torrent community, don’t think it’s a crazy theory to say the legal pressure created product pressure.
  - lucasyvas 5y ago
    You hit the nail on the head for this particular example. It took YEARS for the industry to suck it up and make it as convenient as it needed to be, though. The difference here is that TSLA is already accepting Bitcoin, and the financial sector is already building on Ethereum. So is it really going to be illegal or are there just going to be smoother experiences layered on top that the average user will flock to? Because I'm guessing, based on where we are, that it has to be the latter at this point. Illegal use will be minimized by a new breed of middleman. It's not ideal, but it's right for the majority of people I think.
    - pyrale 5y ago
      What happens the day Tesla or the platform that processes payments for them gets subpoenaed for accepting coins from a ransomware attack? I suspect they will quietly drop their coins and stop accepting new ones, especially since that's unlikely to be a common payment method.
  - syshum 5y ago
    For music yes, largely because the music industry has been unable to resist the devaluation of their product in the modern era.. the Public simply is unwilling to pay $20 for a CD that maybe has 1 good song on it any more. Other entertainment has been better able to resist this, those COVID has dealt a much needed blow to the value of Movies it is yet to be seen if this industry will recover. Unauthorized distribution of non-music media is still very much alive and more popular than ever really. It is also becoming more popular since unlike the music industry the video industry is creating 10's even 100's of walled gardens, that are IP and Geographically locked to hold on to old outdated distribution models I know many people that are growing tired of the "Which streaming service has the show or movie I want" which question that changes on a monthly basis, a Netflix may have it today, but Prime may have it tomorrow, then Hulu may get it later, as it leaves each of these platforms. Most people subscribe to a single music service, however today you need to sign up to 3 or 4 or 5 Video services, that will drive more people back to unauthorized sources that are more convenient
- doktorhladnjak 5y ago
  The way out of p2p music sharing was record companies agreeing to provide their content through iTunes music store, Amazon MP3 store, and eventually streaming services. P2P sharing is still around but not like it was because record companies found a new way to make money by giving people mostly what they want. Maybe it’ll be something similar where government or bank backed crypto becomes the only legal crypto, pushing what’s left even more to the margins.
- throwaway6734 5y ago
  Was there ever massive energy put into stopping p2p file sharing? Stopping crypto just seems like it would take pols committed to taking action: * Attack mining nodes using cyber + military force * Disallow transactions between USD + crypto in the US/Europe/Any other country that is willing to join or can be leaned on
- pyrale 5y ago
  Most of p2p was not running for profit. On the other hand, as soon as you interact with money, there are well-established means to control money flows. If the banking system stop interacting with crypto exchanges, much like they're banned from serving cartels or countries under embargo, cryptocurrency will essentially go back to the fringe status it had a few years ago. Sure, some people may still use it to buy pizzas. But it will essentially lose its interest when it comes to unregulated banking. That kind of regulation may actually be a good thing when it comes to blockchain operations, or at least the few of them that can actually demonstrate a benefit in isolation.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Easy: crypto operates on the basis of real money entering and exiting the system. Real money is one of the most regulated things we have. Turn off the spigots, no new money in, miners cannot be paid for their services, value drops, people get bored and move on to the next speculative mania. Most people are only in the space for number go up.

lucasyvas 5y ago

You're not wrong - but considering we failed to stop p2p file sharing how does anyone expect us to stop this? The music industry railed against stuff like Napster and got literally nowhere in the grand scheme of things. We are watching a repeat of history and apparently nobody learned a thing the first time.

ethanbond 5y ago
I don’t think I know anyone who frequently pirates music anymore… Mostly due to superior products coming out (Rdio, Spotify) but given that a founder of Spotify was involved in the torrent community, don’t think it’s a crazy theory to say the legal pressure created product pressure.
- lucasyvas 5y ago
  You hit the nail on the head for this particular example. It took YEARS for the industry to suck it up and make it as convenient as it needed to be, though. The difference here is that TSLA is already accepting Bitcoin, and the financial sector is already building on Ethereum. So is it really going to be illegal or are there just going to be smoother experiences layered on top that the average user will flock to? Because I'm guessing, based on where we are, that it has to be the latter at this point. Illegal use will be minimized by a new breed of middleman. It's not ideal, but it's right for the majority of people I think.
  - pyrale 5y ago
    What happens the day Tesla or the platform that processes payments for them gets subpoenaed for accepting coins from a ransomware attack? I suspect they will quietly drop their coins and stop accepting new ones, especially since that's unlikely to be a common payment method.
- syshum 5y ago
  For music yes, largely because the music industry has been unable to resist the devaluation of their product in the modern era.. the Public simply is unwilling to pay $20 for a CD that maybe has 1 good song on it any more. Other entertainment has been better able to resist this, those COVID has dealt a much needed blow to the value of Movies it is yet to be seen if this industry will recover. Unauthorized distribution of non-music media is still very much alive and more popular than ever really. It is also becoming more popular since unlike the music industry the video industry is creating 10's even 100's of walled gardens, that are IP and Geographically locked to hold on to old outdated distribution models I know many people that are growing tired of the "Which streaming service has the show or movie I want" which question that changes on a monthly basis, a Netflix may have it today, but Prime may have it tomorrow, then Hulu may get it later, as it leaves each of these platforms. Most people subscribe to a single music service, however today you need to sign up to 3 or 4 or 5 Video services, that will drive more people back to unauthorized sources that are more convenient
doktorhladnjak 5y ago
The way out of p2p music sharing was record companies agreeing to provide their content through iTunes music store, Amazon MP3 store, and eventually streaming services. P2P sharing is still around but not like it was because record companies found a new way to make money by giving people mostly what they want. Maybe it’ll be something similar where government or bank backed crypto becomes the only legal crypto, pushing what’s left even more to the margins.
throwaway6734 5y ago
Was there ever massive energy put into stopping p2p file sharing? Stopping crypto just seems like it would take pols committed to taking action: * Attack mining nodes using cyber + military force * Disallow transactions between USD + crypto in the US/Europe/Any other country that is willing to join or can be leaned on
pyrale 5y ago
Most of p2p was not running for profit. On the other hand, as soon as you interact with money, there are well-established means to control money flows. If the banking system stop interacting with crypto exchanges, much like they're banned from serving cartels or countries under embargo, cryptocurrency will essentially go back to the fringe status it had a few years ago. Sure, some people may still use it to buy pizzas. But it will essentially lose its interest when it comes to unregulated banking. That kind of regulation may actually be a good thing when it comes to blockchain operations, or at least the few of them that can actually demonstrate a benefit in isolation.
arcticbull 5y ago
Easy: crypto operates on the basis of real money entering and exiting the system. Real money is one of the most regulated things we have. Turn off the spigots, no new money in, miners cannot be paid for their services, value drops, people get bored and move on to the next speculative mania. Most people are only in the space for number go up.