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> In Jobs' worldview, " not ready yet" was the same as "wrong, terrible product". This doesn’t seem to hold up with the v1 of Apple’s products (iPhone, PowerBo

> In Jobs' worldview, " not ready yet" was the same as "wrong, terrible product". This doesn’t seem to hold up with the v1 of Apple’s products (iPhone, PowerBook, Apple Watch) being ropey to borderline average. Apple has almost always released an underpowered v1 and figured it out later.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
Seems a bit revisionist to claim that the original IPhone was ropey or average. It was unlike anything we'd seen and far better than anything else on the market. In fact it would be years before anyone else managed to produce something that could compete with the v1 IPhone on quality. To head off accusations of fanboyism, I say this as a long-time Android user who did own a G1 phone when it first came out, along with many of the other early android devices. Likewise, the original apple watch was certainly not worse than any other smart watch on the market when it came out. I think you could make an argument that it wasn't best in class depending on use case (e.g. it was tethered) but it was far from being average.
- hobs 5y ago
  There were plenty of crackberry users who saw no reason to switch to an iphone until the app store became inevitable.
- Jtsummers 5y ago
  The first iPhone had no App Store and limited messaging options. It was in many ways a downgrade for Blackberry users or users of Palm Pilot like PDAs. Opening up the App Store is what gave it its real potential.
  - donio 5y ago
    Yeah, I would go as far as saying that the iPhone 1 as it was released was much closer to what we later called a feature phone than a smartphone.
    - klelatti 5y ago
      Strong Steve Ballmer vibes about this comment. "It doesn't have a keyboard which makes it not a very good email machine" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U Sure the iPhone was such an evolutionary product - practically indistinguishable from my old Nokia.
      - donio 5y ago
        Do you disagree? What then makes the iPhone 1 (as originally released) more of a smartphone than a feature phone?
        klelatti 5y ago
        Here's the wikipedia definition of smartphone: > A smartphone is a portable device that combines mobile telephone and computing functions into one unit. They are distinguished from feature phones by their stronger hardware capabilities and extensive mobile operating systems, which facilitate wider software, internet (including web browsing[1] over mobile broadband), and multimedia functionality (including music, video, cameras, and gaming), alongside core phone functions such as voice calls and text messaging. Basically a feature phone does calls and text messaging - if it has a decent email client, web browsing and multimedia it's a smartphone. The iPhone 1 was a smartphone.
        donio 5y ago
        I guess my definition is wider than that. I was thinking of phones like the touchscreen Nokia Asha phones, they have web browsing, navigation, music, chat, maybe basic facebook/twitter and the usual phone stuff but no app support. I wouldn't call those smartphones either.
        klelatti 5y ago
        Asha had Java ME apps and was a borderline smartphone in 2011. Sure neither had App Stores but in 2007 no-one used having an App Store as the criteria for being a smartphone or not. What we expect from a smartphone moves on of course but you have to judge by the standards of the time. I fact you could argue that by modern standards there were no smartphones pre iPhone 1 - that the poor browsing experience for example would disqualify the Blackberries and Motorolas of the time.
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    Sure, it was a downgrade in some ways. A major upgrade in others (aesthetics, UI, web browsing, maps, camera, etc.). I didn't say it was better in every way, just that it was better. Although that year it was still outsold by Blackberry -- the last time that would happen. The 3G was the first unit to outsell RIM.
    - Jtsummers 5y ago
      It was a downgrade for everyone but consumers who already weren't using PDAs or Blackberry. Until the app store opened up (a year after the first iPhone was released) the iPhone family was not a competitive device for the same space as those devices. It was much better than any feature phone at the time, but nowhere near what the competing market had. The original comment I responded to was about the original iPhone, not the 3G which was released after the app store opened up. I would consider the iPhone 3G a sidegrade for PDA and Blackberry users, which eventually led to an actual upgrade as more applications came out and with the release of the 3GS which had a clear technical advantage over the other systems of the time. > Seems a bit revisionist to claim that the original IPhone was ropey or average. From your original comment. The first iPhone may not have been ropey, but it was average for everything but consumers coming from feature phones. It was an upgrade for consumers coming from feature phones as it offered much better capabilities there, merging an iPod (better music and video support) with a mobile web browser and email client. But until the app store came out with the iPhone 3G, the iPhone was just a good consumer device (and a really good one given the price and AT&T's unlimited data plan options), but was a distinct downgrade for PDA and Blackberry users in nearly every way.
klelatti 5y ago
"Figured it out later" Hmmm. Multitouch, Apps (even if Apple only), Mobile Safari etc. Seems to me that the original iPhone arrived pretty much figured out from a product perspective and it was fast enough. Sure the silicon has got more powerful but that's not Apple's fault.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

Seems a bit revisionist to claim that the original IPhone was ropey or average. It was unlike anything we'd seen and far better than anything else on the market. In fact it would be years before anyone else managed to produce something that could compete with the v1 IPhone on quality. To head off accusations of fanboyism, I say this as a long-time Android user who did own a G1 phone when it first came out, along with many of the other early android devices. Likewise, the original apple watch was certainly not worse than any other smart watch on the market when it came out. I think you could make an argument that it wasn't best in class depending on use case (e.g. it was tethered) but it was far from being average.

hobs 5y ago
There were plenty of crackberry users who saw no reason to switch to an iphone until the app store became inevitable.
Jtsummers 5y ago
The first iPhone had no App Store and limited messaging options. It was in many ways a downgrade for Blackberry users or users of Palm Pilot like PDAs. Opening up the App Store is what gave it its real potential.
- donio 5y ago
  Yeah, I would go as far as saying that the iPhone 1 as it was released was much closer to what we later called a feature phone than a smartphone.
  - klelatti 5y ago
    Strong Steve Ballmer vibes about this comment. "It doesn't have a keyboard which makes it not a very good email machine" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U Sure the iPhone was such an evolutionary product - practically indistinguishable from my old Nokia.
    - donio 5y ago
      Do you disagree? What then makes the iPhone 1 (as originally released) more of a smartphone than a feature phone?
      - klelatti 5y ago
        Here's the wikipedia definition of smartphone: > A smartphone is a portable device that combines mobile telephone and computing functions into one unit. They are distinguished from feature phones by their stronger hardware capabilities and extensive mobile operating systems, which facilitate wider software, internet (including web browsing[1] over mobile broadband), and multimedia functionality (including music, video, cameras, and gaming), alongside core phone functions such as voice calls and text messaging. Basically a feature phone does calls and text messaging - if it has a decent email client, web browsing and multimedia it's a smartphone. The iPhone 1 was a smartphone.
        donio 5y ago
        I guess my definition is wider than that. I was thinking of phones like the touchscreen Nokia Asha phones, they have web browsing, navigation, music, chat, maybe basic facebook/twitter and the usual phone stuff but no app support. I wouldn't call those smartphones either.
        klelatti 5y ago
        Asha had Java ME apps and was a borderline smartphone in 2011. Sure neither had App Stores but in 2007 no-one used having an App Store as the criteria for being a smartphone or not. What we expect from a smartphone moves on of course but you have to judge by the standards of the time. I fact you could argue that by modern standards there were no smartphones pre iPhone 1 - that the poor browsing experience for example would disqualify the Blackberries and Motorolas of the time.
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  Sure, it was a downgrade in some ways. A major upgrade in others (aesthetics, UI, web browsing, maps, camera, etc.). I didn't say it was better in every way, just that it was better. Although that year it was still outsold by Blackberry -- the last time that would happen. The 3G was the first unit to outsell RIM.
  - Jtsummers 5y ago
    It was a downgrade for everyone but consumers who already weren't using PDAs or Blackberry. Until the app store opened up (a year after the first iPhone was released) the iPhone family was not a competitive device for the same space as those devices. It was much better than any feature phone at the time, but nowhere near what the competing market had. The original comment I responded to was about the original iPhone, not the 3G which was released after the app store opened up. I would consider the iPhone 3G a sidegrade for PDA and Blackberry users, which eventually led to an actual upgrade as more applications came out and with the release of the 3GS which had a clear technical advantage over the other systems of the time. > Seems a bit revisionist to claim that the original IPhone was ropey or average. From your original comment. The first iPhone may not have been ropey, but it was average for everything but consumers coming from feature phones. It was an upgrade for consumers coming from feature phones as it offered much better capabilities there, merging an iPod (better music and video support) with a mobile web browser and email client. But until the app store came out with the iPhone 3G, the iPhone was just a good consumer device (and a really good one given the price and AT&T's unlimited data plan options), but was a distinct downgrade for PDA and Blackberry users in nearly every way.

klelatti 5y ago

"Figured it out later" Hmmm. Multitouch, Apps (even if Apple only), Mobile Safari etc. Seems to me that the original iPhone arrived pretty much figured out from a product perspective and it was fast enough. Sure the silicon has got more powerful but that's not Apple's fault.