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Those self-landing Falcon rockets don't impress you? Those capabilities sounded like exaggerated concepts not too long ago. Tesla cars and solar -- truly help

Those self-landing Falcon rockets don't impress you? Those capabilities sounded like exaggerated concepts not too long ago. Tesla cars and solar -- truly helping humanity move from fossil fuels (truly like in reality, at large scale), and now StarLink... Yeah, I'd say his outcomes are pretty good. Musk makes Jobs and Gates look like under-achievers.

LightG 5y ago
Nope. The staff at Spacex impress the hell out of me. Likewise at Apple. Sure, Jobs, Musk, et al are catelising figures, but please ...
- ItsMonkk 5y ago
  I've watched a decent amount of Jobs interviews, and I think you are down-playing the importance of this effect. He was a jerk, but he could spot talent, feverishly go after it, and then allow it to shine by giving it some of the most impactful problems that humanity is facing. Somehow he was able to wield a big company like most people could only handle small companies. I don't know how many people have this skill, and you first require to have a ton of capital at hand to make use of it, but of the people in the world who have that capital this skill seems rather rare.
- leg100 5y ago
  Quite. When he said on SNL "I re-invented electric cars", I thought yes, you and 1000s of very smart engineers at Tesla did, not you alone. The leaders at the top of these companies get way too much credit for "having the vision". The vision too mostly likely came from many individuals who are not in the limelight and don't have the connections nor the cash. Musk otherwise comes across as vulgar and insecure.
  - peter422 5y ago
    I used to get bothered by this as well, but you’ve got to get over it. Most of the time the thousands of people don’t want to be in the limelight and it is better for the product/company to have a good and smart leader out there touting it without saying every single time that actually they didn’t do that much and Bill and Mary and Chloe and 500 other people actually did all the work. Look, we all know Musk and other CEOs didn’t invent these products/ideas on their own but storytelling is a big part of leadership.
  - toiletfuneral 5y ago
    I totally agree, reminds me of every rich kid cokehead who treats employees like shit and lies to pump the stock. Yeah he found a market for expensive cars and is making a ton off of government contracts but not sure what his contribution ultimately is...it’s not like EVs wouldn’t happen without him
nnamtr 5y ago
Those rockets impress me, but Elon Musk did not construct them. The NASA (and also the soviet union) managed to do equally great things without someone like him in past. > Tesla cars -- truly helping humanity move from fossil fuels It would be much more effective to use bicycle and trains wherever possible, and drive small cars otherwise. But wait ... that's not luxurious enough. Saving the world is just an excuse for cool cars. > and now StarLink ... to make the last corner of the world addicted to the internet and pay money to Musk.
- Gwypaas 5y ago
  The true achievement is not the capability of the rockets, it is the huge reduction in cost compared to government contracts. This is even excluding the reusability. The development costs for Falcon 9 v1.0 were approximately US$300 million, and NASA verified those costs. If some of the Falcon 1 development costs were included, since F1 development did contribute to Falcon 9 to some extent, then the total might be considered as high as US$390 million.[14][2] NASA also evaluated Falcon 9 development costs using the NASA‐Air Force Cost Model (NAFCOM)—a traditional cost-plus contract approach for US civilian and military space procurement—at US$$3.6 billion based on a NASA environment/culture, or US$$1.6 billion using a more commercial approach.[15][14] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_v1.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_v1.0 Cited from https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Section403(b)CommercialMarketAssessmentReportFinal.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Section403(b)...
  - nnamtr 5y ago
    We were never talking about costs, we were talking about how visionary Elon Musk is. However, while it's great if money is saved, again: is it really the achievement of Elon Musk, or would any private company be able to hold down costs?
    - doggosphere 5y ago
      Nobody was working on self landing rockets. Nobody was working on electric cars. We'd be waiting another 10 years for what we have today.

LightG 5y ago

Nope. The staff at Spacex impress the hell out of me. Likewise at Apple. Sure, Jobs, Musk, et al are catelising figures, but please ...

ItsMonkk 5y ago
I've watched a decent amount of Jobs interviews, and I think you are down-playing the importance of this effect. He was a jerk, but he could spot talent, feverishly go after it, and then allow it to shine by giving it some of the most impactful problems that humanity is facing. Somehow he was able to wield a big company like most people could only handle small companies. I don't know how many people have this skill, and you first require to have a ton of capital at hand to make use of it, but of the people in the world who have that capital this skill seems rather rare.
leg100 5y ago
Quite. When he said on SNL "I re-invented electric cars", I thought yes, you and 1000s of very smart engineers at Tesla did, not you alone. The leaders at the top of these companies get way too much credit for "having the vision". The vision too mostly likely came from many individuals who are not in the limelight and don't have the connections nor the cash. Musk otherwise comes across as vulgar and insecure.
- peter422 5y ago
  I used to get bothered by this as well, but you’ve got to get over it. Most of the time the thousands of people don’t want to be in the limelight and it is better for the product/company to have a good and smart leader out there touting it without saying every single time that actually they didn’t do that much and Bill and Mary and Chloe and 500 other people actually did all the work. Look, we all know Musk and other CEOs didn’t invent these products/ideas on their own but storytelling is a big part of leadership.
- toiletfuneral 5y ago
  I totally agree, reminds me of every rich kid cokehead who treats employees like shit and lies to pump the stock. Yeah he found a market for expensive cars and is making a ton off of government contracts but not sure what his contribution ultimately is...it’s not like EVs wouldn’t happen without him

nnamtr 5y ago

Those rockets impress me, but Elon Musk did not construct them. The NASA (and also the soviet union) managed to do equally great things without someone like him in past. > Tesla cars -- truly helping humanity move from fossil fuels It would be much more effective to use bicycle and trains wherever possible, and drive small cars otherwise. But wait ... that's not luxurious enough. Saving the world is just an excuse for cool cars. > and now StarLink ... to make the last corner of the world addicted to the internet and pay money to Musk.

Gwypaas 5y ago
The true achievement is not the capability of the rockets, it is the huge reduction in cost compared to government contracts. This is even excluding the reusability. The development costs for Falcon 9 v1.0 were approximately US$300 million, and NASA verified those costs. If some of the Falcon 1 development costs were included, since F1 development did contribute to Falcon 9 to some extent, then the total might be considered as high as US$390 million.[14][2] NASA also evaluated Falcon 9 development costs using the NASA‐Air Force Cost Model (NAFCOM)—a traditional cost-plus contract approach for US civilian and military space procurement—at US$$3.6 billion based on a NASA environment/culture, or US$$1.6 billion using a more commercial approach.[15][14] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_v1.0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falcon_9_v1.0 Cited from https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Section403(b)CommercialMarketAssessmentReportFinal.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/files/files/Section403(b)...
- nnamtr 5y ago
  We were never talking about costs, we were talking about how visionary Elon Musk is. However, while it's great if money is saved, again: is it really the achievement of Elon Musk, or would any private company be able to hold down costs?
  - doggosphere 5y ago
    Nobody was working on self landing rockets. Nobody was working on electric cars. We'd be waiting another 10 years for what we have today.